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Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

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Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#61

Post by mbo »

chroem- wrote: post #3

It's been an odd experience having a few Australian HN posters attempt to rationalize to me why their police are justified in shooting people who leave their homes with rubber bullets, and why it's normal to be required to take surveillance photos of themselves in their own residences. I guess strict authoritarianism must be accompanied with equally strict media propaganda.

I will attempt to rationalise the "surveillance photos of themselves in their own residences". It is vastly preferable to the hotel quarantine system. I was the "victim" of the hotel quarantine system, when I re-entered a Covid-free Queensland from in-the-middle-of-an-outbreak-New South Wales a few months ago.

Australia has been mostly unvaccinated until recently[1] due to a botched vaccine procurement process[0] by the federal government. After a quarantine leak in NSW[2], harsh interstate border controls were implemented by all other states, including quarantining of all interstate travellers from NSW in hotels. Cases leaked into Victoria and the ACT and started their own outbreaks[3,4], but the remaining states are still Covid-free.

The requirements described in [5] are a significant easing of freedoms for interstate travellers. I would personally have loved to have quarantined in my own home, and if I need to send a photo of myself occasionally, so be it. I think it is a justified exchange of privacy in exchange for, in the example of Queensland (population 5.185 million), only 558[6] local cases and 7 deaths over the entire pandemic.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/world/asia/japan-south-ko... [1] https://chrisbillington.net/aus_vaccinations.html [2] https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_NSW.html [3] https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC_2021.html [4] https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_ACT.html [5] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-austra... [6] https://covidlive.com.au/qld

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#62

Post by pedalpete »

spikepuppet wrote: post #4

As an Australian, I can definitely say I'm not complacent. The rise of all this surveillance here certainly unnerves me, and has definitely helped hasten my want to emmigrate ASAP.

This is unfortunate. I immigrated to Australia 10 years ago, and when I arrived, I was shocked by the level of acceptance of surveillance and even the police rights to search.

I'm not an Australian citizen, but I make sure the Australians I know are aware that it isn't like this everywhere around the world.

If you don't like it, it's better to try to change it or bring awareness than just leave.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#63

Post by ceejayoz »

chroem- wrote: post #60
ceejayoz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have fewer than 10 deaths per state combined with very high vaccination rates. From the outside looking in, it seems wholly unjustified. “That car is running really well. Why don’t we dismantle the engine?”

Excellent: you have achieved orders of magnitude fewer deaths than the annual cold and flu season. But at what cost? You have also surrendered your entire society to an enforcement apparatus that looks like it was taken straight out of a work of mid 20th century dystopian fiction.

My grandma's in Tasmania. Hasn't needed to wear a mask the entire time. My uncle has worn a mask for a couple of days total.

My American-born kids are going to school in KN95 masks and spent most of last year doing temperature checks and health screenings.

One of these looks like "a work of mid 20th century dystopian fiction", certainly.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#64

Post by taitems »

Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. The pearl clutching "Save Australia" protests were good for a chuckle[1], but are also accompanied by people advocating we rise up and murder our police[2]? When Florida has 50x the per capita death rate than that of Australia, it's pretty clear that the US chose liberty AND death[3].

Lockdown is hard, police have overstepped here and there -- but my family is safe and healthy, and my parents are alive.

[1] https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/australians... [2] https://youtu.be/FUKqliBYIvM [3] https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/florida-s-per-capita-covi...

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#65

Post by pedalpete »

C19is20 wrote: post #34
chroem- wrote: post #3

It's been an odd experience having a few Australian HN posters attempt to rationalize to me why their police are justified in shooting people who leave their homes with rubber bullets, and why it's normal to be required to take surveillance photos of themselves in their own residences. I guess strict authoritarianism must be accompanied with equally strict media propaganda.

Is it common for people in Australia to leave home with rubber bullets?

That was my reaction!!!

They're attempting to equate anybody who leaves their home with being a rioter who attacked police.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#66

Post by vel0city »

ImTheMaddest wrote: post #33
stephen_g wrote: post #14

It’s a fairly complex situation. Most people just don’t realise all the encroaching police state laws even exist (I refer to the real ones Federally, not the temporary State-Government health orders that some people have tried to blow out of proportion). We have very little media diversity. The few billionaires who own the few outlets enjoy the continuing tax cuts, random free grants, advertising spend, etc. from the…

We can't blame the LNP for all of this. All of the surveillance related bills passed in the last 10 years have been bipartisan. I'd also go as far as to say this is what Australians want. Many people believe these laws won't be used against regular citizens and will assist in law enforcement efforts.

Laws are always used to prosecute criminals. The tricky thing is the definition of criminal can quickly be changed to include you.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#67

Post by clouddrover »

bobbytit wrote: post #2

No, we are not complacent. If we leave our home detention to protest anything we are arrested. Where the fuck can I claim asylum?

You could try claiming asylum in America. Here's the view from your front porch in America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LozQg0oX-Gw

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#68

Post by javagram »

na85 wrote: post #57
k1t wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be this: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-austra... https://katv.com/news/coronavirus/new-program-tracks-quarant... [Home quarantining] participants will receive advice via the smartphone app as to their obligation at random times to provide the selfie back to the public health teams. Should that not be responded to in a period of time, follow up calls or visits are made so as to make sure…

That's heinous.

Seems less heinous than spreading a dangerous virus and killing hundreds or thousands of citizens? We’ve seen other countries try that approach (e.g. here in the USA) and it clearly harms society and has led to massive suffering and loss of life.

Considering this is being trialed as an alternative to being locked under guard in a hotel or cabin for two weeks, it’s actually less invasive too…

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#69

Post by Tomis02 »

Australian soldiers committing war crimes in Afghanistan? Nobody bats an eyelid.

Can't go to Kmart because the government tries to fight the pandemic? Riots in the streets.

And you're surprised there's complacency to digital surveillance, when people are more outraged by slight personal discomfort than by murder. It's not even criticism, just an observation. People are very comfortable in their bubble and do not care about anything on the outside; you only get a reaction when the comfort bubble is disturbed.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#70

Post by [deleted] »

ceejayoz wrote: post #53
chroem- wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who has crossed state lines in the last two weeks is required to follow those quarantine measures. They have fewer than 10 deaths per state combined with very high vaccination rates. From the outside looking in, it seems wholly unjustified.

> They have fewer than 10 deaths per state combined with very high vaccination rates. From the outside looking in, it seems wholly unjustified. “That car is running really well. Why don’t we dismantle the engine?”

[deleted]
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