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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#211

Post by fragmede »

sangnoir wrote: post #164
fragmede wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't make it then? If a particular vendor's product isn't in line with the company's mission, the CEO is the one to make the call to proceed with manufacturing. edit: it's not for me and I can totally just not buy one, but if one identified with their original mission and sees this as betrayal of that, it'd be hard to justify getting a framework laptop when it's their turn to upgrade.

> So don't make it then? You presume to have internalized Framework's core-values more than the founder/CEO? The box is not my cup of tea,but they are free to experiment.

I presume that my core values, which I might know just a teeny tiny bit, align with what the corporation has stated as their values. But at the end of the day, the"core values" of a corporation are just some words on a webpage on the journey to more profit and I mean, hey, I like money too, so it's not like I can really fault them for pivoting.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#212

Post by yellow_lead »

rdedev wrote: post #55
ThinkBeat wrote: post #28

It seems unframeworky Memory, CPU and GPU once piece of metal, sitting in a tiny box. A regular PC in a regular case, it a lot more modular and upgradable. It does seem like an interesting box, and matches against Apple Studio I would presume. Yet customers of Apple are used to having (near) 0 user modifiable parts. It might well have a good market, It might b a great box. It is unframeworky.

https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY The ceo kind of explains why in this video. In essence it seems to be a limitation of the chip from AMD

From 7:40~ "The signal integrity doesn't work out."

I don't understand, but maybe someone else could explain.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#213

Post by aljgz »

brunoqc wrote: post #203
forevernoob wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...the first Framework Laptop 12 motherboard is going to use Intel's 13th-generation Core i3 and i5 processors I _really_ hope they launch an AMD version (perhaps with an iGPU) soon after that. That and preferably with Libreboot support. This would make it the ideal portable laptop for me and thus I'd be able to (finally!) replace my X220T.

Why would you prefer AMD? price, heat/fan noise?

I don't know about the GP. I won't buy anything from Intel unless things change dramatically. My last Intel laptop had serious thermal throttling problem that could be completely avoided if Intel cared a bit about users. The one before had some other problems. In past 20 years, anytime I bought (or was given by a company) AMD I was happy, and as time goes by I get less and less happy with Intel.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#214

Post by kibwen »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #155
kibwen wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since when has DPI started _decreasing_ again? The human hardware isn't getting any better, so we must accept that there exists some upper bound beyond which improving resolution isn't a selling point for most people, especially given the necessary tradeoffs in battery life, processing power, memory usage, and input latency it entails. Now consider that this ceiling may have been hit 20 years ago, and that the cont…

This is a ridiculous thing to respond to someone who complains that this hardware is worse than what was available at the same size 10 years ago.

It's not. Finding the ceiling is always going to involve overshooting the ceiling and then walking back from there. It sounds as though you're not willing to consider even the possibility that this may be the effective end of progress for this combination of technology and use case, at least for values of "progress" that involve increasing resolution, rather than values that involve decreasing cost.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#215

Post by fragmede »

preisschild wrote: post #180
fragmede wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't make it then? If a particular vendor's product isn't in line with the company's mission, the CEO is the one to make the call to proceed with manufacturing. edit: it's not for me and I can totally just not buy one, but if one identified with their original mission and sees this as betrayal of that, it'd be hard to justify getting a framework laptop when it's their turn to upgrade.

I disagree. Modularity is good, but if there are real technical reasons why it is not possible (like in thise case), then it could be a worthwile compromise.

that's a fair point! soldered on ram currently has more performance than socketed. it's definitely a compromise and I'm being an uncompromising motherfucker. It's not my company though and I'm just some rando on the Internet expressing an opinion.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#216

Post by yellow_lead »

GuB-42 wrote: post #163

It is a weird product for the Framework brand. The pitch for the Framework laptop is that it is repairable/upgradable/modular. Something that is uncommon for laptops nowadays. This is the opposite. Desktops are modular by default, so much is that my computer is like the Ship of Theseus, I never changed it, but upgrade to upgrade, it is a completely different machine than it once was (it started off as a 486!). This o…

I feel like the target audience would build (or buy used/build used) something cheaper that's more powerful.

The form factor isn't small enough to make this worth it IMO

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#217

Post by ziml77 »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #170
ziml77 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's higher DPI than a 24" 4K monitor. It is plenty dense, especially for a battery powered device where the power needed to drive the display is a real consideration.

That's why this has half the resolution of my current same size 12'' tablet, even though my current device has also half the battery capacity, and likely costed half than this thing will cost. Even if you use today's prices, the cheapest iPad has almost double the resolution. No, 1080p at 12'' it is not plenty dense. You do not put this smaller thing as far from your face as a 24'' monitor.

Triple the DPI? Are you doing the calculations right? The DPI of this screen is 189. The iPad Standard, Air, and Pro at 11 and 13 inches have a DPI of 264. The iPad Mini is a standout at 326 DPI, which is 1.72x the DPI.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#218

Post by TiredOfLife »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #124
sunshowers wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Strix Halo doesn't have any Zen 5c.

The framework 13 laptop chips have Zen 5c cores.

And that is relevant to the Framework desktop how exactly?

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#219

Post by 42772827 »

yellow_lead wrote: post #205
42772827 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is to comply with the ever changing export restrictions enacted by the current US administration. So don’t expect it to change soon.

That sounds misleading. The parent comment says all deliveries in Asia are limited to Taiwan. As far as I'm aware, export restrictions are only placed on certain chips going to China. How do export restrictions prevent Framework from shipping to i.e Japan?

Nothing about the current regime projects stability. Taiwan is a strategic partner and the source of many parts, so it’s essentially the only “safe bet” in Asia.

When you’re a company who needs time to adapt to any change in policy (aka all of them) and a company that can’t afford fines for noncompliance (small companies like Framework) your strategy is to be as conservative as possible.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#220

Post by sudosysgen »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #208
coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

I don’t quite get why framework focuses so much on Intel and AMD. ARM laptops are in the rise, and don’t need active cooling. It’s hard for me to think of upgrading to another laptop with fans when so many fanless (I.e.: silent) options are available.

Strix Point AMD laptop CPUs are just better than non-Apple ARM CPUs across the board, and don't have the whole host of compatibility issues. There isn't really any point to them.
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