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Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

theguardian.com

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Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#211
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I’m honestly a bit shocked at the reactionary nature of this entire thread. Same > And yeah, white people should have guild in America. No one is guilty of things they didn’t do

It’s not literal guilt like in a criminal trial, it’s a collective responsibility.

“White guilt is a belief that white people bear a collective responsibility for the harm which has resulted from historical or current racist treatment of people belonging to other racial groups” (Wikipedia)

Here’s an analogy: if I see litter on the ground in my neighborhood, I’m not guilty of littering. But if I willfully ignore it and downplay it, rather than putting in extra effort to pick it up, my neighborhood will still have litter.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a non sequitur strawman. > You add to the hurt of this world in the name of victims who would rather you do something more useful. Wrong. Maybe try talking to people that don't want that kind of verbiage instead of making bad assumptions. Removing terminology associated with slavery has high support among those that actually were descendants of slaves. > This is about you, not about them. As such, this sounds…

My favorite part about this response isn't the "non sequitur strawman", although that's amazing in and of itself. It's the assumption that I'm not a descendant of a slave and have no insight based purely on a post in which no mention of ancestry or race happened. It's like the old meme about tying a buttered piece of toast to a cat, they spin in the air indefinitely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox…

[flagged]

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#213
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m honestly a bit shocked at the reactionary nature of this entire thread. Same > And yeah, white people should have guild in America. No one is guilty of things they didn’t do

It’s not literal guilt like in a criminal trial, it’s a collective responsibility. “White guilt is a belief that white people bear a collective responsibility for the harm which has resulted from historical or current racist treatment of people belonging to other racial groups” (Wikipedia) Here’s an analogy: if I see litter on the ground in my neighborhood, I’m not guilty of littering. But if I willfully ignore it an…

Race is an illusion we are all Homo Sapiens

On your litter analogy: I might be taking advantage of policies that have trash pickup on my street but don’t pickup trash on the other side of the tracks for “reasons”

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#214
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that in the US, a very specific political group rallies around opposition to social justice, and that group has a tendency to try and hide their underlying motivations (e.g., using dogwhistling). Talk about dog whistling! Why don’t you actually say what you mean: “I think people who disagree with my beliefs are unworthy and their opinions don’t count.”

You’re basically headed straight to the tolerance paradox. If you disagree with my desire to not harm others, the inverse is that you want to harm others. No, that opinion doesn’t count, and is unworthy. My intolerance of that opinion is not hypocrisy.

This has nothing to do with the tolerance paradox.

The comment tried to smear opponents of the social justice movement as dog-whistling bigots. But the social justice movement is not, in many people’s very legitimate opinions, the right way to achieve fairness. It also doesn’t enjoy the kind of broad consensus its proponents like to pretend they have.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite part about this response isn't the "non sequitur strawman", although that's amazing in and of itself. It's the assumption that I'm not a descendant of a slave and have no insight based purely on a post in which no mention of ancestry or race happened. It's like the old meme about tying a buttered piece of toast to a cat, they spin in the air indefinitely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox…

[flagged]

> It's disgusting how you try to play that card while having none of the life experiences.

sigh

I have 18 aunts and uncles, all but 1 of them was beaten and raped in a boarding school growing up. My mother was sent to that school at the age of 5, she married at 16 because it was the only way to get out of that school legally. If they were caught speaking anything but English they would be locked out of the dorms during the night, especially if it was winter. They used to force everyone into the shower and make them soap up to be as white as possible. They would be inspected and if they weren't white enough they would get beaten with a strap while in the shower.

I grew up hearing these stories.

Then one day in 9th grade I came home from school to my mother crying and she started talking about things that happened to her at that school. Things we _didn't_ grow up hearing. I won't repeat them here. I started crying because even at that age I had the wisdom to understand she was hurting and I couldn't help her.

The boarding school where my mother went doesn't exist anymore. The school shut down, the buildings were pulled down, and speaking with people who have attempted to document what happened there, it's apparently _extremely_ hard to find any records of it outside of the people who went to school there.

Do you know several of the people who ran that school later got a humanitarian award? I remember it like it was yesterday, it was announced a few days before our family reunion. The anger was _palpable_ across the entire family.

I've seen interviews with others who have gone to these boarding schools so I've seen and heard even more stories. One of a student who was accidentally beaten to death and just disappeared but everyone knew what had happened. A girl who would be pulled out of the lunch line and taken into a room with a priest who would make her pleasure him (girl, not young adult) and give her a penny afterward. She apparently became a prostitute.

Did you know _many_ of my race have black ancestry mixed in? Do you know why? Partially because _they were enslaved together_. Did you know blacks and women both technically got the right to vote before my race did because they got citizenship before my race did?

That's not even going into my own personal experiences, but FYI, I've been called the N-word before.

----

Now for the real question.

Are you a terrible human being for making me relive my own life experiences because you denied them, or are you an amazing human being for not believing a minority could ever possibly think renaming master to main was pointless.

Or maybe you can go to sleep tonight confident in two truths.

1. If you don't announce you're black immediately then you aint black, and

2. If you don't vote for Donald Trump, you aint black.

Or who knows, maybe I just made it all up.

and let me end with another CS Lewis quote.

> Mankind is so fallen that no man can be trusted with unchecked power over his fellows. Aristotle said that some people were only fit to be slaves. I do not contradict him. _But I reject slavery_ because I see no men fit to be masters

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite part about this response isn't the "non sequitur strawman", although that's amazing in and of itself. It's the assumption that I'm not a descendant of a slave and have no insight based purely on a post in which no mention of ancestry or race happened. It's like the old meme about tying a buttered piece of toast to a cat, they spin in the air indefinitely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox…

[flagged]

You broke the site guidelines egregiously in this thread—way over the line at which we ban an account.

Moreover, it looks like you've been primarily using HN for flamewar and ideological battle. That's another line at which we ban accounts, regardless of which ideology they're for.

Moreover, we've had to warn you about breaking the site guidelines multiple times in the past.

Normally I wouldn't ban an account without giving someone another warning first, but the sheer nastiness of how you behaved in this thread is so awful that it actually takes my breath away. You simply can't treat other people like that here, no matter how wrong they are or you feel they are, regardless of how right you are or feel you are.

Therefore, I've banned this account, at least for now. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#217
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you try to bend over backwards to appease the whims of every group of people you'll never accomplish anything. A good engineer realizes this, and prioritizes accordingly. It's a core competency of the job. Not pushing back on master -> main is a sign that an engineer will not make good decisions on the job. Also this has nothing to do with "intolerance" and your framing of it this way is a classic manipulation tac…

I think you're saying it would appease someone, so I think the logical next question for you is why it'd be so hard for you?

Adopting Christianity as the official company religion would also "appease someone". Why would that be so hard for you? It's just words after all.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#218
post #200
post #13

[flagged]

Please don't start hellish flamewars on HN, as you did here. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it. Note that they include: " Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. " and " Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the th…

Thank you for your clear and constructive feedback.

It was not my intention to start a flame war, but to spark debate about this topic, which I feel is not political but culture/language-related.

Off-topic it surely was though, so I'll be more careful about that going forward.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#219
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not literal guilt like in a criminal trial, it’s a collective responsibility. “White guilt is a belief that white people bear a collective responsibility for the harm which has resulted from historical or current racist treatment of people belonging to other racial groups” (Wikipedia) Here’s an analogy: if I see litter on the ground in my neighborhood, I’m not guilty of littering. But if I willfully ignore it an…

Race is an illusion we are all Homo Sapiens On your litter analogy: I might be taking advantage of policies that have trash pickup on my street but don’t pickup trash on the other side of the tracks for “reasons”

[deleted]

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, maybe the white dude feels icky about the master/slave thing. Maybe it's not about the opinions of black people but words we want in common usage in our societies.

Is the intent to completely remove the terms? That's a new angle I hadn't heard. I guess it makes said guilty feeling persons life easier, as they can't hear about the currently happening slavery in the world and can continue on their merry way.

The point is to correlate the word slavery with the concept of human slavery only. Disallowing a word to be used outside that usage is better for everyone.
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