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Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

theguardian.com

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Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#141

Post by davidy123 »

racked wrote: post #13

[flagged]

I like the change from "master" to "main" and a lot of other changes of our times. And I have found it very often says something about a person when they dig in their heels and make a lot of noise about it. Many words are too often used trivially and inappropriately, often when they're not even technically correct (the relationship is very often better described as "controller" and "worker," for example).

This is a moment when one of the big projects is to recognize and address bad habits that have been carried forward. And I especially like the opportunity to find more appropriate and considerate words. Yes, it is sometimes merely a nod. If that is a conceptual monument of our times, that makes some texts look inconsiderate and dated, I'm good with it.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#142

Post by rewmie »

dangus wrote: post #116
about3fitty wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to ask: do you have a position on the following? - an allowlist/blocklist to replace whitelist/blacklist -primary/replica to replace master/slave Also, how old are you? I’m not young but not old and I don’t associate racial overtones to the latter terms

[flagged]

> I’m honestly a bit shocked at the reactionary nature of this entire thread. I knew HN had a bunch of conservative and libertarian tech bros but…holy shit. This whole thread is unhinged.

It's shocking indeed. I'm not sure "reactionary" is a fitting description. Refusing even to extend the faintest hints of common courtesy while being fully aware of the racist and bigoted connotations of using certain terms is something that even goes beyond basic manners.

All the downvoted being dumped on messages that point out this fact is even more concerning. These are basic principles of living in a civilized society. Is that out of fashion?

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#143

Post by foogazi »

dangus wrote: post #116
about3fitty wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to ask: do you have a position on the following? - an allowlist/blocklist to replace whitelist/blacklist -primary/replica to replace master/slave Also, how old are you? I’m not young but not old and I don’t associate racial overtones to the latter terms

[flagged]

> I’m honestly a bit shocked at the reactionary nature of this entire thread.

Same

> And yeah, white people should have guild in America.

No one is guilty of things they didn’t do

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#144

Post by _a_a_a_ »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #140
dangus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm with you all the way up to: > white people should have guilt in America. Why should non-racist white people feel guilty over the actions of other people simply because they have the same skin colour? I do think we need to be aware of and oppose racism, but I cannot understand this attitude. It actually seems a bit... racist, even if well intentioned.

it's trolling. Don't feed.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#145

Post by nebula8804 »

bitcharmer wrote: post #103
nebula8804 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about a % of a minority position since only ~38% of Americans have a bachelors degree or higher. How many people really care about this issue given that majority of people in the country don't even have/did not pursue a degree from one of these institutions that had affirmative action policies.

So we don't care about that because it's a minority, right? Oh, the irony :)

No my point is that I think the average person is not prioritizing this issue because they cannot relate.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#146

Post by nebula8804 »

Akronymus wrote: post #126
nebula8804 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about a % of a minority position since only ~38% of Americans have a bachelors degree or higher. How many people really care about this issue given that majority of people in the country don't even have/did not pursue a degree from one of these institutions that had affirmative action policies.

AA is not just in schools. But also many workplaces have, what amounts to, quotas for having %ages of specific ethnicities. Also, even if it is only 40%ish that went for a bachelors or higher, most people know at least a few people who did. And "why should we care if it affects a minority" seems quite the dangerous path to go down on.

>AA is not just in schools. But also many workplaces have, what amounts to, quotas for having %ages of specific ethnicities.

The supreme court ruled on college admissions no? Correct me if I am wrong, did they also include workplace AA?

>Also, even if it is only 40%ish that went for a bachelors or higher, most people know at least a few people who did.

This is a big country so I find that kind of a stretch.

>And "why should we care if it affects a minority" seems quite the dangerous path to go down on.

My point is that its an issue that I dont think the average person is really thinking about since they can't relate.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#147

Post by tticvs »

threeseed wrote: post #59
tticvs wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never hire a software engineer who tried to make major disruptive changes to play meaningless language games and score social status points.

It may be meaningless to you. But it's not meaningless to other people. Now you can choose not to care about their opinion and be dismissive of their integrity by claiming it's only for social status. But you're never going to hire the best engineers if that's the approach you take. I've worked with some of the very best in the industry and never seen anyone do great things by being intolerant of people.

If you try to bend over backwards to appease the whims of every group of people you'll never accomplish anything. A good engineer realizes this, and prioritizes accordingly. It's a core competency of the job.

Not pushing back on master -> main is a sign that an engineer will not make good decisions on the job.

Also this has nothing to do with "intolerance" and your framing of it this way is a classic manipulation tactic: "You wouldn't want to be intolerant would you?"

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#148

Post by rewmie »

tjpnz wrote: post #120
roenxi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is also a technical improvement. main is easier to type. It takes a lot of effort to overcome the inertia of a default, so even if the reasoning is a bit suspect the outcome is going to be a win eventually.

Replacing one well known default with another non-retroactively increases cognitive load. At that point it being easier to type is meaningless.

> Replacing one well known default with another non-retroactively increases cognitive load.

It's quite clear that managing cognitive loads is the least of all concerns considered by proponents of sticking with non-inclusive terms.

For example, the terms "blacklist"/"whitelist" do not impose a lower cognitive load than "denylist"/"allowlist", but somehow this argument is used in favour of sticking with the legacy/non-descriptive terms.

Also, there is no objective meaning to "slave". In the times of old, people talked about "slave drives" and I bet that most of the proponents of sticking with racist/bigoted language cannot even describe what it's supposed to be.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#149

Post by anon373839 »

dangus wrote: post #136
OscarDC wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the most part of what you wrote and I don't want to turn this even more into an unconstructive flame war than it already is. I just wanted to reply on the following point: > I knew HN had a bunch of conservative and libertarian tech bros but…holy shit. This whole thread is unhinged. Many people on that thread seem to not be american so thinking of them through a US political lens may not be pertinent - t…

I’m speaking purely from the context of the US, and I wouldn’t want to shove our terminology down anyone else’s throat. That said, the US does drive a lot of software culture since it’s the industry epicenter, so I guess it’s unavoidable at some point. Maybe I could have used less politically-charged language, but in my eyes it was necessary to surface the connection. I think that in the US, a very specific political…

> I think that in the US, a very specific political group rallies around opposition to social justice, and that group has a tendency to try and hide their underlying motivations (e.g., using dogwhistling).

Talk about dog whistling! Why don’t you actually say what you mean: “I think people who disagree with my beliefs are unworthy and their opinions don’t count.”

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#150

Post by jen20 »

blueflow wrote: post #71
tomlockwood wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Its not a trivial change, git actually doesn't have an default branch, it is actually just the remote HEAD. And its not possible to git push that information. Thats also why all the manuals about changing the "default branch" require setting some select box in the WebUI. I do maintain a git mirror chain with several pulls/pushes in a row and the whole master/main thing has been a pain in the ass. And both sides in th…

As of git 2.28, it has a setting named “init.defaultBranch”.

git config --global init.defaultBranch trunk

Is one of the things that people complaining about this kind of thing should do, since the respect for tradition should probably transcending tooling.

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