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Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

theguardian.com

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Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#201

Post by dang »

woodpanel wrote: post #105
sleiben wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The «master» to «main» change was totally unnecessary and B.S. imho. Even 15 years ago, when I started my professional journey (in Germany) there were a lot of people who were gay, trans and so on in the dev community … and nobody cared about it. We were all passioned about technologies and respected each other based on commitment/engagement/skill level. At the end most of the true full blood developers were always «…

> and nobody cared about it you see, this is the gift of American progressive cultural imperialism. Suddenly, the only historiography that can exist in the world is that of American trustafarians who try to minimize their shame of being born wealthy heirs of the slave-owner class by spreading the shame on white immigrants that arrived way after slavery got disbanded. And once you set the precedence that you can at wi…

Please don't add nationalistic flamewar hell on top of ideological flamewar hell. It's highly destructive of what this site is supposed to be for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#202

Post by nine_k »

michalu wrote: post #38
nine_k wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it follows the pattern of nationality names, and more general ethnic or geographical groups, like "Japanese", or "American", or "African"'. Please note that not all Africans have black skin (look at Egypt or Libya), and not all people with black skin are Africans (see India, Micronesia, Philippines, etc). So, to my mind, "Black" with a capital B is not people with black skin. They are by far not all black-s…

Does it count if you're ancestor of one of the black slave owners? E.g. this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ellison ? just curious.

I would say that {grand}children are not responsible for what their {grand}[parents have done. They physically cannot be complicit.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#203

Post by roenxi »

TheHappyOddish wrote: post #198
roenxi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less silly than you might think. An important part of life is letting people you don't like make the world better. The people behind this change are the up-in-others-business personalities. They're always going to be destructive, but we should appreciate when they do a little good nevertheless.

> make the world better I really try hard not to mock people on HN, but you need to take a look in the mirror. Your sheltered world view of what "makes the world better" isn't reflective of everyone elses, nor objectively true. I'm glad you think it's good, but you must understand that those who don't agree aren't generally 'bigoted racists' or even people who "don't like" those making the changes.

Literally everyone who renamed their master branch to main thought it was good, that is why they did it. There isn't some international police force conspiring to strong-arm unwilling coders into renaming their default git branch.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#204

Post by safety1st »

safety1st wrote: post #106
racked wrote: post #13

[flagged]

I was really confused when I read this comment. Because to my recollection, capitalizing Black was something that went back as far as the civil rights movement. I think I remember it being a thing that Malcolm X emphasized as a matter of getting all people who had black skin and were oppressed, to identify with a common racial and cultural heritage. At the time there was a dichotomy between Malcom X and MLK Jr. becau…

Notable that this comment was silently downvoted because I guess, y'know, history, books, Black thinkers and the actual civil rights movement are apparently unpopular with the intellectuals here who just want to scream "Racism is bad" as loud as they can on the Internet and assume that will fix all problems

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#205

Post by fxd123 »

bangkoksbest wrote: post #195
fxd123 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the preponderance standard for civil cases is "over 50% likelihood". That's not very strong.

Yeah, it's a civil case, not criminal. Only criminal trials should have standards as high as criminal trials do because only criminal trials punish you by taking away your personal autonomy and freedom. Civil trials cost you money, so obviously the standard is lower.

> Civil trials cost you money, so obviously the standard is lower

... ... ...

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#206

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

thereare5lights wrote: post #188
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not even the worse part. I was mentally and physically abused as a child by my stepfather. If, in the middle of him choking me unconscious someone had given me the choice between "lots of people tell him he's horrible" and "someone gets him off of me", which do you think I would choose? Do you think those who are disadvantaged due to their race would rather you worry about helping them get on their feet or n…

This is a non sequitur strawman. > You add to the hurt of this world in the name of victims who would rather you do something more useful. Wrong. Maybe try talking to people that don't want that kind of verbiage instead of making bad assumptions. Removing terminology associated with slavery has high support among those that actually were descendants of slaves. > This is about you, not about them. As such, this sounds…

My favorite part about this response isn't the "non sequitur strawman", although that's amazing in and of itself.

It's the assumption that I'm not a descendant of a slave and have no insight based purely on a post in which no mention of ancestry or race happened.

It's like the old meme about tying a buttered piece of toast to a cat, they spin in the air indefinitely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox

Am I hire-able? I aint white, so presumably you SHOULD hire me to help with racism. yet I rename my main branch to master on all personal projects.

So the question becomes, do the above posters hire me or not? Presumably no since I have the wrong opinion but if they refuse to hire me they're furthering racial inequities so then presumably yes.

Of course, this paradox goes away the second you acknowledge both are stupid reasons to hire or fire anyone.

---

Here's the real problem with the other posters.

A complete and utter lack of respect for the effects of their decisions on the lives of other people.

It's why I'm such a fan of the following C.S Lewis quote

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/lewis...

> Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#207

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

nec4b wrote: post #130
padjo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why do we exclusively use blacklist to refer to bad things we want to exclude?

For the same reason black card is considered exclusive and prestigious. Maybe you are the problem, associating everything with race and in if in your mind black is inferior, then everything using black as an adjective would be negative for you.

This is the point you can never get through to them.

The word itself isn't negative. It's usage _may_ be negative, but if you think the word itself is negative then you're the racist one.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#208

Post by dangus »

anon373839 wrote: post #149
dangus wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m speaking purely from the context of the US, and I wouldn’t want to shove our terminology down anyone else’s throat. That said, the US does drive a lot of software culture since it’s the industry epicenter, so I guess it’s unavoidable at some point. Maybe I could have used less politically-charged language, but in my eyes it was necessary to surface the connection. I think that in the US, a very specific political…

> I think that in the US, a very specific political group rallies around opposition to social justice, and that group has a tendency to try and hide their underlying motivations (e.g., using dogwhistling). Talk about dog whistling! Why don’t you actually say what you mean: “I think people who disagree with my beliefs are unworthy and their opinions don’t count.”

You’re basically headed straight to the tolerance paradox.

If you disagree with my desire to not harm others, the inverse is that you want to harm others. No, that opinion doesn’t count, and is unworthy. My intolerance of that opinion is not hypocrisy.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#209

Post by dangus »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #144
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you all the way up to: > white people should have guilt in America. Why should non-racist white people feel guilty over the actions of other people simply because they have the same skin colour? I do think we need to be aware of and oppose racism, but I cannot understand this attitude. It actually seems a bit... racist, even if well intentioned.

it's trolling. Don't feed.

I’m not trolling, thanks.
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