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Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

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Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#211

Post by Moldoteck »

Taig wrote: post #154
DeathArrow wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Keeping them active or even building new reactors of that kind is not an economically viable solution. Only reason nuclear energy is not viable is the people pushing against it, which means less nuclear plants are being built and prices skyrocketing. If people would have pushed for nuclear energy like they push for wind and solar, then we would have no coal or gas burning plants by now.

A few reasons why people might be pushing against nuclear: - high electricity generation costs - "I don't want to live next to a nuclear plant" - If Japan can't handle it securely, why do we think we can? - Unsolved long-term waste storage location - Cost for long-term storage must additionally covered by the society - We are producing radioactive waste that must be securely stored for thousands of years to feed the…

-nuclear is realiable and cheap after built -living next to nuclear vs next to coal plant/hydro dam isn't that bad -japan wasn't able to handle one plant, and almost none were killed(most deaths were from tsunami -Long term is solved: Sweden is building a special storage place. Combine with vitrification(solidification of waste) it's going to be ok -cost is still negligible compared to cost/problems we have now bc of pollution -France can reprocess 95% of nuclear fuel, actually 17% of their el energy is from reprocessed nuclear, the rest 5% should be stored for ~300 yrs to handle most dangerous radiation. Combined with vitrification, you get a safe way to store a solid form waste in a single controllable place instead of spreading it in the air(fossils) So yeah, most of the fears are driven by fossil propaganda

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#212

Post by johannes1234321 »

Aachen wrote: post #65
a_bonobo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Maybe this is my tech bubble, but try to find a country with higher Linux/PGP/OpenStreetMap use. I am still trying to put my finger on what the culture difference is precisely, but also outside of tech there's more thinking about what the right/correct/fair thing to do is, even if that brings greater net harm in the end. Example: closing down nuclear because it's not a perfect solution and has risks and waste (ignori…

> but try to find a country with higher Linux/PGP/OpenStreetMap use. I am still trying to put my finger on what the culture difference is

Those examples stem from Germany's strong care about privacy, which is rooted in the Nazi regime, showing how data can be used to discriminate people and then the surveillance in East Germany by the Stasi.

While there are many aspects to critizise Germany did mostly well to educate the own population about the Nazi crimes (which also kept right wing parties out for a long period compared to other European countries, while that changes currently ...)

In addition the West did propaganda against East and Stasi surveillance which told the West society about the dangers of surveillance (while at the same time CIA, NSA etc had quite some power in Germany ...)

And then, after reunification, they didn't simply burn down Stasi and forget, but again did a huge program to study the surveillance programs and publishing about it and allowing everybody to request their Stasi file.

Thus on the aspect of privacy the society is confronted with the risk.

The other aspect about German culture is the pride about "German Engineering" thus thinking though and trying to avoid problems. This brought quite some industry, however in a highly dynamic field, like modern IT based systems it prevents coming up with solutions compared to the Silicon Valley "move fast and break things" attitude. Germany is. More like "move slow, but robust" Those in the early days, Germany was quite well with IT (think Use, Siemens, Nixdorf) but when the core engineering lost relevance and software took over lost ground, so that basically only SAP survived, which is a very German product, again.

Also the Nuclear exit, I argue, is partially caused by the cold war: Chernobyl caused notable increase in radiation etc in Germany, where children were forbidden to play outside, hunting mushrooms was forbidden etc. and as being located directly on the iron curtain and as one could directly observe how differently the reporting in West and East Germany was (shared language across the fence ...) it was symbolized.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#213

Post by voqv »

neuronic wrote: post #109
KptMarchewa wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could leave nuclear, and "replace" lignite with wind and solar instead, you actually replaced nuclear with lignite. >The decision to phase out nuclear has long been made (for good reasons). No, it was made for bad reasons. >Keeping them active or even building new reactors of that kind is not an economically viable solution. The price Germany pays for this is higher carbon emissions for the time being until re…

Your comment is wrong and malicious and looking at the data proves you wrong. Using lignite only slowed the reduction of coal, nuclear was almost completely replaced by renewables. https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c...

Just selecting 2023 as a timeframe isn't good data.

You can see here [1] that on a time frame of 2000 to 2022 Germany is yet to replace reduction of nuclear generation (Kernkraft) with renewables. Construction of renewables in 2023 has only accelerated 50% relative to 2022 [2].

[1] https://www.tech-for-future.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/... [2] https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/installed_power/chart....

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#214

Post by Moldoteck »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #105
locallost wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were not, there is even less coal used since nuclear plants were shut down than before. Nuclear and coal are getting continuously replaced by renewables. Coal end date is set to either 2030 or 2038 (I forget). The country people should be complaining about is Poland. It's the worst emitter of co2 in Europe and it will not do anything about it for 10-20 years because it wants to build nuclear plants.

You can build both nuclear and solar and wind at the same time. Poland will stick to coal because of local economic interests, it has nothing to do with nuclear. > They were not, there is even less coal used since nuclear plants were shut down than before. Well.. there is no reason why there shouldn’t be zero coal use before anyone starts shutting sown nuclear power plants. For one thing the issues with nuclear waste…

afaik poland agreed to build a nuclear plant

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#215

Post by ozim »

Aachen wrote: post #8

Electricity, maybe. Energy? I wish. This headline would be more true if we had transportation fully electrified and all buildings heated with heat pumps, but last I heard the proposed law to require the latter transition to be started in 2024 was dropped again, and they're also still debating about starting to require transitioning the combustion engine fleets to electric by, what was it, 2030? I also still see stick…

Sorry on the nitpicking - we will have to dig into our pockets even if government does something. Government does not have magic money it is also “our money”.

One would say government would levy fees on big companies but then companies will charge customers more.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#216

Post by harrid »

JanSt wrote: post #155
cubefox wrote: post #62

Grams of CO2 per kWh: France: 43 Germany: 398 https://abload.de/img/img_20230705_133511_84efdp.jpg The reason? Germans hate nuclear and prefer coal as a stable energy source.

Most of the population changed their mind and is pro-nuclear. But sadly the only party really supporting nuclear energy is the AfD, which is a far-right party most would never consider to vote for. Nuclear phase-out is part of the Green party identity; the CDU had Merkel going against nuclear after Fukushima and can't really go back, the FDP agreed, the SPD is also against it.

> the AfD, which is a far-right party most would never consider to vote for.

The AFD is currently the second most popular political party in Germany and the strongest in many parts. It's also better described as center-left.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#217

Post by ceving »

TomK32 wrote: post #93
Aachen wrote: post #8

Electricity, maybe. Energy? I wish. This headline would be more true if we had transportation fully electrified and all buildings heated with heat pumps, but last I heard the proposed law to require the latter transition to be started in 2024 was dropped again, and they're also still debating about starting to require transitioning the combustion engine fleets to electric by, what was it, 2030? I also still see stick…

Heating is one thing we have tackle, but also transportation which uses up 27.1% of energy in German. Individual transportation should be a main target, we would all shift from cars to public transport or bicycles. About 40% of distances driven with cars are shorter than 5 kilometers, a distance that's perfect for a bicycle. On top of that, car owners tend to underestimate the cost of their cars[1] [0] https://www.um…

I would like to see you cycling 5 km in the Alps against the wind in the rain. Cycling is fine. I do it 7 km to the work. But only because it is flat. And only when the weather is fine.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#218

Post by oaiey »

kataklasm wrote: post #200
JanSt wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the population changed their mind and is pro-nuclear. But sadly the only party really supporting nuclear energy is the AfD, which is a far-right party most would never consider to vote for. Nuclear phase-out is part of the Green party identity; the CDU had Merkel going against nuclear after Fukushima and can't really go back, the FDP agreed, the SPD is also against it.

I'm afraid you're not realizing the impact of your echo chamber. The bulk of german voting power lies in the age group of 40 to 70, measured by voter turnout per age group. People aged 45 and up felt the imoact of the Chernobyl disaster, whole forests in Germany are still not allowed to be foraged for mushrooms because of ground contamination. Those people have their fear of nuclear power ingrained in them and as usu…

I certainly remember my father digging the earth of our fruit garden aside half a year after the fallout of Chernobyl. Things added to perspective.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#219

Post by maigret »

smat wrote: post #194
cubefox wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Germany produces almost 10 times as much CO2 per kWh as France. https://abload.de/img/img_20230705_133511_84efdp.jpg It's mind boggling.

At the same time France had to buy loads of electricity from Germany in the last year because several nuclear plants had to shut down due to a) maintenance problems and b) low rivers that could not provide sufficient cooling.

And sometimes it's the opposite https://www.worldstopexports.com/electricity-exports-country...

True France's infrastructure is not resilient enough on climate, they are also a bit in denial over that. Everyone have their weaknesses.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#220

Post by Moldoteck »

Gwypaas wrote: post #41
looping__lui wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, we also started importing nuclear electricity from France at scale to bridge the gap. So, it’s not as bad as you put it. Nuclear waste is now somebody else’s problem…

France have been importing electricity all winter due to woes with their nuclear plants. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/business/nuclear-power-fr...

those didn't appear out of the thin air, but because of underfunding driven by the greens. Problems were fixed, and now, just like in the past, France is exporting energy
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