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Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

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Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#91

Post by locallost »

cubefox wrote: post #76
locallost wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coal use is at a historic low in Germany, thus it is not possible that nuclear plants were replaced with coal. Statistics are reflecting reality, your facts are actually just guesses and opinions.

They absolutely were counterfactually. If nuclear power hadn't been shut down, much less coal energy would have been needed.

They were not, there is even less coal used since nuclear plants were shut down than before. Nuclear and coal are getting continuously replaced by renewables. Coal end date is set to either 2030 or 2038 (I forget).

The country people should be complaining about is Poland. It's the worst emitter of co2 in Europe and it will not do anything about it for 10-20 years because it wants to build nuclear plants.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#92

Post by karmakurtisaani »

pohuing wrote: post #52
Aachen wrote: post #8

Electricity, maybe. Energy? I wish. This headline would be more true if we had transportation fully electrified and all buildings heated with heat pumps, but last I heard the proposed law to require the latter transition to be started in 2024 was dropped again, and they're also still debating about starting to require transitioning the combustion engine fleets to electric by, what was it, 2030? I also still see stick…

The issue in Germany is that this transition is expensive, even more so after 16 years of decay of everything from the past coalitions. And that makes the current coalition unpopular, along with an eternaly bickering liberals(in nothing but name) trying to block any spending. Add onto that Conservative tabloids continously firing against green with every scrap they can get, and we're looking at fascists polling over…

This is the new political landscape in Europe. By including the fascists, the conservatives roughly double their votes and don't need to compromise with the rest anymore. We're seeing this now in Finland and probably next in Germany. To me this is selfish and short-sighted in the short term, and outright dangerous in the long term.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#93

Post by TomK32 »

Aachen wrote: post #8

Electricity, maybe. Energy? I wish. This headline would be more true if we had transportation fully electrified and all buildings heated with heat pumps, but last I heard the proposed law to require the latter transition to be started in 2024 was dropped again, and they're also still debating about starting to require transitioning the combustion engine fleets to electric by, what was it, 2030? I also still see stick…

Heating is one thing we have tackle, but also transportation which uses up 27.1% of energy in German. Individual transportation should be a main target, we would all shift from cars to public transport or bicycles. About 40% of distances driven with cars are shorter than 5 kilometers, a distance that's perfect for a bicycle. On top of that, car owners tend to underestimate the cost of their cars[1]

[0] https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/daten/energie/energieverbrauc... [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01118-w

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#94

Post by mhandley »

sparkling wrote: post #35
mhandley wrote: post #23

Right now, Germany appears to be 85% renewable [0], but is still pretty mediocre on CO2 emissions compared to many of its neighbours (Poland excepted!). That 8GW of coal still hurts, but the trend is pretty good. [0] https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE

Because electricity is only one part of the overall energy usage. Heating is still ~75% fossil-based (oil, gas).

Yes, but there's little point in electrifying heating until you have a cleaner grid. Right now, the marginal source of power in Germany is coal and in the UK is mostly gas (occasionally coal). If you switch your heating to electric heating, that's how the electricity would be generated. With gas as the marginal source, if you switch from a modern condensing gas boiler to an air-source heat pump with a COP of 2.5, you might come out a little ahead in CO2 emmisions once you factor in generation (50% thermal efficiency) and transmission (9% losses for the UK) losses, but not a lot. With coal as the marginal source, you come out behind in CO2 emissions from switching from gas heating to a heat pump. If you switched from gas to resistive heating, it's a lose all round.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#95

Post by gpjanik »

Revisit this in December, please. This headline is a problem, not an achievement. The amplitude in output of renewables in good vs. bad weather makes it impossible to install photovoltaic panels in many places already now.

But yeah, Germany is handsome and awesome.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#96

Post by lopis »

cubefox wrote: post #70
Garvi wrote: post #4

Actually Germany recently shut down all of it's nuclear plants and replaced them with the dirtiest fuel possible: lignite coal burning plants. Statistics are a peculiar thing.

This is why Germany produces almost 10 times as much CO2 per kWh as France. https://abload.de/img/img_20230705_133511_84efdp.jpg It's mind boggling.

It's.. complicated. Nuclear is super clean at the consumption site, but not super clean at the mining site [0]. And then there's the problem that France's access to cheap uranium is a relic of extractive colonialism, and these countries don't exactly see the fair profits from France's hunger for energy [1].

So yes, France's energy is cleaner, but it's a complicated picture.

[0] https://meta.eeb.org/2017/10/18/french-state-owned-company-c...

[1] https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/161954185.pdf

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#97

Post by sparkling »

lopis wrote: post #73
Aachen wrote: post #8

Electricity, maybe. Energy? I wish. This headline would be more true if we had transportation fully electrified and all buildings heated with heat pumps, but last I heard the proposed law to require the latter transition to be started in 2024 was dropped again, and they're also still debating about starting to require transitioning the combustion engine fleets to electric by, what was it, 2030? I also still see stick…

In the meantime, Switzerland is installing solar panels on train tracks [0] instead of, I don't know, people's roofs. There is so much promising tech coming out in terms of energy storage and we're seeing almost zero investment from governments. Everything's backwards. [0] https://www.techspot.com/news/98944-switzerland-installing-s...

Why are people so obsessed with "solar roadways" or "solar train tracks"? This is a joke, a gimmick, it makes absolutely no sense. Well, except for the startups that are getting massive subsidies and grants for these clown projects.

There are still millions of open-space square meters all over the country. Think of flat-roof warehouses, supermarkets, parking facilities and more. Those places are easy to access, easy to install, easy to maintain. These train track installments however.... hard to install, require non-standardized panel sizes, non-standard wiring, special equipment, are in a dusty/dirty uncontrollable environment, maintenance is only possible in coordination with the train company. My guess is that these things are 4-5x more expensive on a per kwH basis, if you consider the total cost of ownership.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#98

Post by ffgjgf1 »

locallost wrote: post #66
Garvi wrote: post #4

Actually Germany recently shut down all of it's nuclear plants and replaced them with the dirtiest fuel possible: lignite coal burning plants. Statistics are a peculiar thing.

Coal use is at a historic low in Germany, thus it is not possible that nuclear plants were replaced with coal. Statistics are reflecting reality, your facts are actually just guesses and opinions.

> Coal use

Should be at zero before anyone even starts thinking about closing nuclear power plants.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#99

Post by WinstonSmith84 »

thiago_fm wrote: post #44
mutlimind wrote: post #5

The deindustrialization has begun.

Isn't this an advantage? Why should a rich country keep its industry and salaries flat for so long?

Losing jobs ain't really an advantage ... At least, salaries won't stay flat either, there will be none - if you see that as an advantage?

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#100

Post by Pesthuf »

ur-whale wrote: post #49
thiago_fm wrote: post #34

Living in Germany is leaving any big city and seeing loads of wind turbines everywhere. I know very little of its economics, like that it typically takes 7 years to pay it back and lasts 20-25 years, but looks like a good way to generate renewable energy and will likely soon take Germany to 100%. It's a goal for the government and for many years it has been pushing forward. I dislike many things here, but I can't say…

> seeing loads of wind turbines everywhere The wind turbines are only there to hide the giant, coal-powered power plants that Germany had to restart because the tree-huggers who run that country decided to ditch nuclear. I very much doubt the veracity of this article.

Ah yes, notorious tree-hugger Merkel in 2011.
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