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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#211

Post by tsimionescu »

floydnoel wrote: post #6
FreakyT wrote: post #4

Really hoping regulators crack down hard on Apple's clearly anticompetitive practices. If Apple allowed sideloading the entire point would be, of course, moot, but Apple's continued refusal to allow this is really the biggest problem, IMO.

well they do allow that, users have to reinstall every week though.

They absolutely do not allow that. It is against the ToS to distribute apps using developer signing - that is only allowed for in-company testing and development, and potentially for some limited beta testing.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#212

Post by josephcsible »

baddox wrote: post #153
daveidol wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an "undeniable right" but it's also not like there are a lot of other options. You can say "just move to another platform" or "then make your own platform" but you also have to be a realist. This is why antitrust laws exist - sometimes the market realities make this nearly impossible.

It’s no more realistic to say “if you don’t like the licensing terms of your game engine then just rewrite your game.”

It's a LOT more realistic to rewrite your game than it is to tell all of your iOS customers that they have to jailbreak or switch platforms.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#213

Post by Someone »

valuearb wrote: post #183
dangoor wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem a fair comparison given the far more substantial costs of brick and mortar. Brick and mortar retailers do not, traditionally, have very large margins when all is said and done, whereas I think the App Store has quite significant margins for Apple.

Last I looked, Apples gross services margins were around 66%, which implies a break even for the store at a 10% fee.

I think Apples service margins include an unspecified amount from Google for being the default search engine on iOS.

And that’s a big fraction of their services. https://www.thestreet.com/investing/google-pays-apple-billio... estimates that at $9.48 billion over 2018.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#214

Post by mdoms »

ecf wrote: post #46
xoxoy wrote: post #8

Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?...

Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers. In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.

A much smaller cut in a much more open market.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#215

Post by chodeboy »

smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

I think the word you are looking for is oligopoly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#216

Post by jdmoreira »

Sargos wrote: post #187
jdmoreira wrote: post #113

People will take sides in this and I think they will be missing the point. These are just 2 greedy corporations strong-arming each other and trying to win some hearts in the public space. Epic would do the same if they were in Apple's position and Apple would do the same if they were in Epic's position. This is just 21st century politics and it’s all about money.

This is a naive take on the situation. Sure they are both companies and looking to make money but this issue transcends both of them and is a core freedom of choice issue. As a society are we allowed to run software that we want or are we okay with being told which software is deemed acceptable for us? This question would be thorny if it even were a political issue but at this point it's literally a private corporati…

It has been like that for 10 years since the start of the Appstore. The difference now is that these platforms are getting big enough that public opinion are starting to look at them as classical infrastructure / utilities. That’s why it needs to be regulated and I agree with that 100%. But Apple is obviously just one example among thousands. Even Epic runs their own marketplace.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#217

Post by ashtonkem »

greysphere wrote: post #182
ashtonkem wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't like it" and "It's illegal" are not the same thing.

Everything that's illegal was first something someone didn't like.

Sure, but you’ve got to pass a law first.

Unless if you’re alleging that Apple is in breach of an existing law. If so, you should probably provide evidence for such an assertion.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#218

Post by calcifer »

voidpointercast wrote: post #124
ryneandal wrote: post #97

Given Epic's history, this is entirely them taking the lead and trying to fight for smaller game devs. Kudos to them.

That seems blindly naive but okay.

How so? If, over the long term, Epic wins this fight (e.g via an antitrust case) Apple would either allow sideloading, or reduce their cut. How is that not a benefit for small developers?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#219

Post by benhurmarcel »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #88
shajznnckfke wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a huge fan of Apple Pay and do not begrudge the 0.15% cut they take on those transactions. The cut they take for App Store purchases is over 100x that amount, which is obscene.

But,it's more than that. Not only do I get some security for payment, but I get: * Some level of guarantee that every app on my phone has been vetted (it's not perfect of course, but is better than nothing). It's unlikely that anything to nefarious makes can make it onto my phone, and if it does, it'll be removed. * I get a better fit and finish. Apps on the iPhone very often have a better quality to them. * I get th…

But nobody wants to deny you the choice of paying an extra 30% to get all that. What they want is the choice.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#220

Post by itsovermyhead »

ecf wrote: post #70
itsovermyhead wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about using a different OS. The monopoly is that if you want to distribute through Apple, you have to go through their app store. There's not another app store that you can go through. At least with Android you can go through f-droid if you don't like the Play Store.

That’s not a monopoly though. No one is being forced into using an iOS device. A monopoly would be if Apple was literally the only smartphone manufacturer in the entire world.

I'll defer to Epic's official court filings to make the argument for a monopoly for me. I'm not an expert on such topics, and it would be out of turn for me to speak more on it.

"Apple monopolizes the iOS App Distribution Market".

https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf

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