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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#31

Post by kevingadd »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #19
wedn3sday wrote: post #7

How is the apple app store not the definition of a monopoly? Is there an competing app store on iphones that Epic could be using?

There are a ton of competing app stores, the fact that you can't access them on an iPhone means nothing. Apple made a platform, they have every right to set the rules. Don't like it go somewhere else there are plenty of other choices.

"Apple made a platform, they have every right to set the rules. Don't like it go somewhere else there are plenty of other choices." is not necessarily sound reasoning here. US telecoms were broken up as a monopoly even though they made the platform and had every right to set the rules. "go somewhere else" implies buying a new phone, potentially under contract, and smartphones aren't cheap.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#32

Post by rbecker »

donor20 wrote: post #25
elliekelly wrote: post #12

What is Apple’s end game here? It seems like they’re fighting a losing battle and digging their own antitrust grave. Pretty clever on Epic’s part to specifically highlight how Apple’s app store fee hits the user directly. Pretty short-sighted of Apple to immediately pull an app for providing consumers with additional disclosure about where their money is going.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

'Monopoly' is just a poorly phrased way of saying abuse of market power.

Edit as reply: I'm not accusing them of breaking a law, but of abusing their position. That there might not yet be a law against this specific kind of abuse doesn't make the practice any less abusive.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#33

Post by kevingadd »

btbuilder wrote: post #22
wedn3sday wrote: post #7

How is the apple app store not the definition of a monopoly? Is there an competing app store on iphones that Epic could be using?

Apple has something like ~40% of US market share of smart phones. Therefore it is not a monopoly even if within that market share they have complete control with app store.

Monopoly status is not as simple as 'do you have 51%'

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#34

Post by jaegerpicker »

rbecker wrote: post #23
epaga wrote: post #5

This is not surprising to me, and I have to say, I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. Surely they were expecting this to happen, so what comes next? Perhaps Epic has been planning a major lawsuit and this will provide them with the reason to launch it? Edit: https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293984290326433792 They have an entir…

> I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. App Store policy is not law - its terms are unilaterally set by Apple. Citing it as justification makes no sense.

The own the platform, they designed it, built it, and maintain it. They have every right to set the rules for it.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#35

Post by throwaway413 »

shajznnckfke wrote: post #29
threatofrain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

> and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I’m really curious what you mean by this. Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on? You DoorDash orders, your rent, your salary?

If it meant my work processes were as streamlined and organized as Apple's operating standard? Political antics gone? Safety and security with no negotiation?

Tempting...

(Just experimenting with the idea, not that I actually agree with this line of thought.)

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#36

Post by xoxoy »

elliekelly wrote: post #12

What is Apple’s end game here? It seems like they’re fighting a losing battle and digging their own antitrust grave. Pretty clever on Epic’s part to specifically highlight how Apple’s app store fee hits the user directly. Pretty short-sighted of Apple to immediately pull an app for providing consumers with additional disclosure about where their money is going.

if you look at iPhone sales over past 6-8 quarters or so growth is slow to non-existent. they are squeezing services revenue like this to continue growing their top line.

personally i don’t see it as sustainable and surprised the stock keeps hitting all time highs.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#37

Post by ashtonkem »

rbecker wrote: post #23
epaga wrote: post #5

This is not surprising to me, and I have to say, I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. Surely they were expecting this to happen, so what comes next? Perhaps Epic has been planning a major lawsuit and this will provide them with the reason to launch it? Edit: https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293984290326433792 They have an entir…

> I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. App Store policy is not law - its terms are unilaterally set by Apple. Citing it as justification makes no sense.

Barring clauses that are deemed unenforceable, Terms and Conditions are effectively the same as the law when it comes to interacting with Apple's services. Citing them is actually fair, since the courts will uphold enforceable clauses if someone sues.

If you want to argue that Apple’s TOS are unenforceable, then that’s a different argument.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#38

Post by littlecranky67 »

wedn3sday wrote: post #7

How is the apple app store not the definition of a monopoly? Is there an competing app store on iphones that Epic could be using?

Why is everyone so obsessed with the non-monopoly status? At least in the EU, antitrust cases don't require a monopoly, it is enough if burdens for market entrance are imposed, or cost for market entrace is too high (and especially purposely set too high by companies to prevent competition). Is this something specific to the US?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#39

Post by snapetom »

ardy42 wrote: post #17
wedn3sday wrote: post #7

How is the apple app store not the definition of a monopoly? Is there an competing app store on iphones that Epic could be using?

> How is the apple app store not the definition of a monopoly? Is there an competing app store on iphones that Epic could be using? I think it's all about how you define the market. Is the market for "apps on the iPhone" or "computer software in general"? Apple has monopoly control of the former but not the latter.

This. Antitrust lawsuits almost always focus on what exactly the market is that the players play in. "Monopoly" is a highly technical economic and legal term that is scrutinized on a case-by-case basis. It is not the broad stroke that the public likes to use.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#40

Post by itsovermyhead »

donor20 wrote: post #25
elliekelly wrote: post #12

What is Apple’s end game here? It seems like they’re fighting a losing battle and digging their own antitrust grave. Pretty clever on Epic’s part to specifically highlight how Apple’s app store fee hits the user directly. Pretty short-sighted of Apple to immediately pull an app for providing consumers with additional disclosure about where their money is going.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

It's not about using a different OS. The monopoly is that if you want to distribute through Apple, you have to go through their app store. There's not another app store that you can go through.

At least with Android you can go through f-droid if you don't like the Play Store.

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