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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#91

Post by ecf »

slongfield wrote: post #83
ecf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers. In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct?

I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#92

Post by kayodelycaon »

pgrote wrote: post #68

I am ignorant of the rules applying to apps with payments in the apple app store. Is it true retailers do not have to pay a percentage to Apple when people pay to reload cards through the app? https://twitter.com/ballmatthew/status/1293893660493455360 "Wow. Epic outright promoting direct in-app payment around iOS store but in iOS apps And users collect 100% of the savings. No monetary benefit to Epic. Note: McDonalds…

Physical and digital goods are treated differently.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#93

Post by heavyset_go »

donor20 wrote: post #25
elliekelly wrote: post #12

What is Apple’s end game here? It seems like they’re fighting a losing battle and digging their own antitrust grave. Pretty clever on Epic’s part to specifically highlight how Apple’s app store fee hits the user directly. Pretty short-sighted of Apple to immediately pull an app for providing consumers with additional disclosure about where their money is going.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

From the FTC itself[1]:

> Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. Courts look at the firm's market share, but typically do not find monopoly power if the firm (or a group of firms acting in concert) has less than 50 percent of the sales of a particular product or service within a certain geographic area.

[1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#94

Post by aaomidi »

threeseed wrote: post #89
aaomidi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there was literally a hearing last week, and multiple plans in EU to stop this sort of behavior, exactly because of the evidence that companies like Epic Games bring to light.

It is simply an investigation. There are no plans in place to force Apple, Google etc. to do anything. And it's not even clear what outcome the EU is even seeking.

If past cases are something to go by, there is a very real risk here for Apple and they're digging their own regulatory grave by behaving like this.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#95

Post by jaegerpicker »

ardit33 wrote: post #45
jaegerpicker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The own the platform, they designed it, built it, and maintain it. They have every right to set the rules for it.

Until regulations steps in, and mandates to be more fair and open, or to break up the company, or to allow multiple app stores (by competitors). At the end of the day, and iPad is a general computing device, and it will probably be treated as such in courts, where there are precedents on this.

What does it being a general computing device have to do with anything? Is it the only general computing device available? PC's and Androids exist, how is Apple in anyway a monopoly when they don't even have control of the market?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#96

Post by unixhero »

vegcel wrote: post #49
threatofrain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

Conversely, one of the things I miss about Android apps is the competition. I recall there being several (free) apps that fulfill some function on Android, and then when switching to iPhone, the apps that provide that function costing $10+ dollars. There's an obvious trade off for security/reliability, but I've still come across my fair share of terrible iPhone apps. Android definitely has a more freeware/open source…

Come back then, we have chocolate.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#98

Post by laumars »

ecf wrote: post #46
xoxoy wrote: post #8

Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?...

Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers. In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.

Businesses don’t exist to define a moral compass. They exist to make money. Any large and successful company will happily play the “do as I say and not as I do” card as often as they think they’ll get away with it.

I’m not saying it’s right but it’s pointless being shocked by the hypocrisy of the logic that businesses are run by.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#99

Post by chrisshroba »

shajznnckfke wrote: post #29
threatofrain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

> and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I’m really curious what you mean by this. Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on? You DoorDash orders, your rent, your salary?

> Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on?

That's not what they said. Apple already handles payment processing via Apple Pay for real world goods (Amazon, Food delivery, Wish), and does not take a cut of the transaction. Some people see Apple controlling payments for many companies as monopolistic and overreaching, but some (like the parent poster and myself to a degree) see it as a safer alternative to having trust dozens of different companies.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#100

Post by iamspoilt »

Question: How is Apple's 30% cut different from the transaction fees that are charged by Visa / Mastercard and payment processors like Stripe? I can see the big percentage but is the argument in favour of removing the entirety of the cut or reducing it down?
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