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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#201

Post by johnny4000 »

djcapelis wrote: post #90
sergiotapia wrote: post #17

I already sent SendGrid's sales department an email that I will boycott their company and recommend others do so as well moving forward. Where I work we were considering between SendGrid or Mandrill and this incident practically made our choice for us. We cannot and _will not_ support a company that backs[1] a person like this. [1] - https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328

Want to tell us which company you work for so we can all avoid doing business with firms who makes decisions about which technology to choose based on whether or not they like the recent tweets of a company's employees on their personal twitter accounts?

I think you misread sergiotapia's comment. They were objecting to how Sendgrid was supporting the actions of Richards. The tweet seemed like a poor example.

I also don't see an issue with having non-technical attributes being part of the equation in the criteria for selecting a vendor. Price is clearly important, as can be a business' ethics; both are not technology related but can important depending on the circumstance.

Lastly Mandrill does seem like a slightly better product for the cost, but that of course might vary based on requirements.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#202

Post by tiredofcareer »

fusiongyro wrote: post #133
tiredofcareer wrote: post #32

I think all of us would agree that technology has a sexism problem. However , the environment in 2013 and the way, as a whole, it seems that we have gone about countering it is roughly equivalent to napalming six city blocks to get rid of bedbugs in an apartment. (Edit: On reflection, a better analogy would be napalming New York City to eradicate bedbugs. I am aware of the scope of the sexism problem.) This little sa…

> The overcompensation and hypersensitivity to combat sexism in technology is, rather amusingly, making technology even more hostile and demoralizing. I find this attitude really strange, as if you need to make dick jokes to write code. Sorry to lose you, but if basic manners are an insufferable encroachment on your style and abilities, maybe we'll just have to find a way to get along without your talent.

I'm not sure how you got from the quoted portion to your conclusion. I don't need to make dick jokes to write code. I'm not lamenting the loss of base humor. I'm lamenting the guerrilla campaign against it, such as considering it okay to take photos of someone and shame them publicly without even saying a word to them as if we live in 1984. Notice I didn't type anything like "boy, I'll sure miss dick jokes," so I suspect you're either projecting or misunderstanding what I wrote.

What's next, a Web site with 'mugshots' taken by people who walk around conferences listening for inappropriate jokes? For a group of people that fears the Orwellian, some sure are applauding this action.

When did we lose, as a culture, the basic ability to open the hole that words come out of and tell someone that we're offended by them, and please stop it so I can pay attention to the talk?

Basic manners, indeed.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#203

Post by [deleted] »

ajross wrote: post #16
blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…

[deleted]

Re: The PyCon Incident

#204

Post by GuiA »

necaris wrote: post #196
GuiA wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is quite insane. I almost gave a tongue-in-cheek lightning talk at Pycon (mostly about python stuff, but with some tongue-in-cheek political jokes), and decided against it at the last minute. I'm glad I did, otherwise I feel like there would be HN headlines about me getting kicked out of Pycon :)

Nothing wrong with tongue-in-cheek. So long as it's something you'd be comfortable saying in front of your boss -- it's a professional conference, after all. The Code of Conduct is pretty clear.

Well, as a co-founder, there's stuff that I'm comfortable saying to my CEO that I wouldn't be comfortable saying to a random stranger :P

But politics & religion are a touchy subject, and all things considered, the odds that someone in a crowd of 1k+ people would take a tongue in cheek joke seriously and make a big deal out of it don't feel so low.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#205

Post by djcapelis »

tn13 wrote: post #53

This is what happens now: In an all male team we decide to hire a girl. But then someone says "we wont be able to crack fallus jokes anymore? ". Screw it lets hire a guy ...

I'm sorry if some women are totally screwing up your bro culture, but I think that's actually the point.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#206

Post by ritchiea »

gkoberger wrote: post #144
ritchiea wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Adria is in the wrong here but I don't think it's her fault or fair to blame on her that his employer acted even more quickly and foolishly than she did by firing him. This whole situation sucks but let's try to be realistic about assessing blame. I understand why the fired individual's name is being withheld but I'd really like to know who his employer is. I would boycott that company way before I boycott Se…

Look at his shirt in the picture.

Ha. Good point. Mobile games. Not my thing anyway. Easy to boycott!

Re: The PyCon Incident

#207

Post by sp332 »

numbsafari wrote: post #120
rmk2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fefe is by no means "most Europeans", though he is quite well known as a ("political nerd") blogger in Germany. His comment on the matter, however, is less that of pointing and laughing and more that of worry, especially considering that there were some mild(er/ish) issues along similar lines in the wake of the 29C3. As a quick and dirty(!) translation of this blog post: http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=afb76b8d "The 'sexual…

Is it really so hard to not make sexual jokes and references when in a public business forum that you would honestly stop attending conferences? What exactly do they add to the discourse on the actual technical issues being discussed?

It's a bit dehumanizing to be forced to act like sexuality doesn't exist. This wasn't propositioning anyone, it wasn't insulting anyone, it wasn't explicit. It was a few lame jokes. I (personally) have no problem watching myself in these situations, but it always feels artificial. I'm not sure what American society is doing to women, but it leaves some of them incapable of dealing with any amount of sexuality. (Again I don't mean actually having sex, but just a lame double-entendre, delivered to a third party, without malice, makes you uncomfortable?)

Re: The PyCon Incident

#208

Post by zem »

wpietri wrote: post #101
crag wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS. I'm getting sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their actions. Now I do agree with you somewhat. I doubt she saw this "joke" as an opportunity to screw someone over (at least I hope so. If she did, then all bets are off); but that doesn't excuse her wrong. Her actions caused this guy to be fired. She needs to own it. Apoligize, Offer amends and move on.

Note where you stop in the causal chain: with the woman. You could blame the millennia of sexism that set up the situation. You could blame the gender-imbalanced context: it's easy for humans to be insensitive to minority views. You could blame the guy's parents and teachers for not raising him right. You could blame the guy for saying something inappropriate. You could blame his friends for not reigning him in. You…

my rage at the boss who fired him is only matched by my boggledness that more people are choosing to blame adria than are choosing to blame the person actually responsible.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#209

Post by ubasu »

blhack wrote: post #31
ajross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…

It went further than that, though. http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont...

From this article:

"I saw a photo on main stage of a little girl who had been in the Young Coders workshop. I realized I had to do something or she would never have the chance to learn and love programming because the ass clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do so."

Seems a tad melodramatic as a reaction to a private conversation. Seems to go with the Joan-of-Arc complex:

https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313442430848487424

Re: The PyCon Incident

#210

Post by orf »

djcapelis wrote: post #90
sergiotapia wrote: post #17

I already sent SendGrid's sales department an email that I will boycott their company and recommend others do so as well moving forward. Where I work we were considering between SendGrid or Mandrill and this incident practically made our choice for us. We cannot and _will not_ support a company that backs[1] a person like this. [1] - https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328

Want to tell us which company you work for so we can all avoid doing business with firms who makes decisions about which technology to choose based on whether or not they like the recent tweets of a company's employees on their personal twitter accounts?

You mean the actions of the lead developer evangelist, a person who represents the company, on a highly public twitter account?
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