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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#61

Post by signed0 »

kanja wrote: post #28
Semaphor wrote: post #15

> the "forking" reference turned out to be a fabrication. > She never exchanged a word with the men. Anyone got a source for those claims? I thought her actions were undefendable the way she described them, but this would make it a whole different beast. And thanks to a lack of sources at the pastebin I don't know if that's true or made up (and I hadn't seen those mentioned anywhere so far).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

"While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes were made about forking. My friends and I had decided forking someone's repo is a new form of flattery (the highest form being implementation) and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said "I would fork that guys repo" The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us."

Re: The PyCon Incident

#62

Post by eridius »

minimaxir wrote: post #29
Semaphor wrote: post #15

> the "forking" reference turned out to be a fabrication. > She never exchanged a word with the men. Anyone got a source for those claims? I thought her actions were undefendable the way she described them, but this would make it a whole different beast. And thanks to a lack of sources at the pastebin I don't know if that's true or made up (and I hadn't seen those mentioned anywhere so far).

From Adria's post: http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont... I stood up slowly, turned around and took three, clear photos. I said back down, did another gut check and started composing a tweet. Three things came to me: act, speak and confront in the moment. I decided to do things differently this time and didn’t say anything to them directly. The true "forking" meaning was described in the HN p…

I don't want to take sides here, but I do take issue with the claim that the "forking" thing was fabricated, or was irrelevant, because the intent of the person who spoke it was not sexist or even meant as a joke. The fact is, the way language is interpreted by the listener is far more important than how it was meant by the speaker. And it should be pretty obvious that the phrase "I want to fork his repo" could be easily construed as being a crude sex joke.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#63

Post by paranoiacblack »

nawitus wrote: post #49
jamesaguilar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech (in the United States, according to the Constitution and historical rulings of the Supreme Court) is freedom from government intervention in political and artistic speech, not permission to make lewd jokes and be free of private or personal consequences.

One country doesn't define freedom of speech.

That's not the author's point. He was giving a definition relevant to the situation. Pycon happened in the US, so if there are complaints about freedom of speech at the event, the complainer is no doubt talking about freedom of speech laws in the US.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#64

Post by dagw »

dmishe wrote: post #18
jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

and there goes the freedom of speech

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you get say whatever you want whenever you want without any repercussions.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#65

Post by codesuela »

danilocampos wrote: post #22

Couple pieces to this. First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer. Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here. The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke. From PyCon's code of conduct: "All communication should…

Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? It is not like they meant to offend somebody. I am assuming they weren't talking loudly but rather meant to converse between each other. How I talk to my buddy is no ones fucking business.

How about you tell your friend of of those an American, a Russian and a German walk into a bar jokes, someone overhears it, snaps a picture and announces to his twitter following what a xenophobic asshole you are?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#66

Post by crag »

ajross wrote: post #16
blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…

BS. I'm getting sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their actions.

Now I do agree with you somewhat. I doubt she saw this "joke" as an opportunity to screw someone over (at least I hope so. If she did, then all bets are off); but that doesn't excuse her wrong. Her actions caused this guy to be fired. She needs to own it. Apoligize, Offer amends and move on.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#67

Post by b0sk »

Here's my blame attribution

10% - The guys. Yea, a bit moronic to make a private adult joke that can be heard by others in a professional setting. But even in a real job setting, they'd just get a reprimand from HR and that'll straighten most of them out.

40% - Adria. It's getting evident that she went out of the way to take offense and sees herself as Joan of Arc (superiority complex?). She tries to make herself the center of the story. Extra credits for implying in her twitter feed that every criticism she's getting is from trolls.

50% - The company which fired the guy. Are you kidding me? Unless there's a backstory or a history of such behavior from the guy, it's awfully cruel to rob a guy of his livelihood without weighing all the facts. Yea, do an internal reprimand.. but FIRING?! Crazy people heading the company.

0% - PyCon organizers. 0% - Adria's employers.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#68

Post by mortov »

Sounds like a looming PR disaster because of a serious error in dealing with a perceived inappropriate comment (even if we discount eavsdropping on a private conversation being considered bad manners).

Sendgrid should be sending people who have enough skill and experience to know how to represent their company and what they stand for. This includes basic manners and enough insight to remember that all their actions are a direct official reflection of the company ethos.

Right now, their reputation just took a serious hit in my books because they feel best represented and aligned with someone who does not get basic courtesy (don't listen to other peoples private conversations) and think it's cool to damage someone's career and have them fired because of what they say in private by making highly public criticisms and maximising their distribution (i.e. twitter).

It did cause me to have a quick check over my mail scanning logs for a number of my clients and Sendgrid do seem to be a source of lots of complaints from my customers for spam. This whole thing pretty much cements my intention to just block their traffic in future without asking too many questions instead of suggesting customers use the opt-out links. It will cut down my own work and based on this incident I think I'll be doing my customers a favor.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#69

Post by djcapelis »

SODaniel wrote: post #25
blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Pretty obvious they fired the wrong person here. If someone worked for me and posted inflammatory images/statements about/involving a co-worker they would be the one needing to worry about their job.

Please clarify if it is in fact the policy of the company you work at that employees should be "worrying about their job" based on the contents of their Twitter accounts.

If so, please let me know so I can ensure that I never work with you.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#70

Post by SODaniel »

ajross wrote: post #16
blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…

Personal vendetta or not. A person that reacts to a private conversation (inappropriate or not) by posting hearsay about two co-workers to 1000s of followers the way she did is NOT a person I would want to work with, even less hire. She has at the very least shown very bad judgement and should not be commended nor rewarded for it.
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