The PyCon Incident • Hacker News Board

Re: The PyCon Incident

#21

Post by blhack » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:27 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

You know, I've been thinking...

It's also pretty unprofessional to wear jeans to work, and beer after 4:00pm on Friday is just a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Also the schedule that the developers keep is really unprofessional. If one of the accountants tried to show up at 11:00am, they'd be fired!

I also saw some pictures of one of our devs at Burning Man last year. He was wearing some sort of black, canvas skirt, and no shirt.

TOTALLY unprofessional.

Don't even get me started on the guy who tried to start a "nerf war" at work. A WAR! Excuse me, but people DIE in wars. How on earth did he think that was okay? It's like he was saying that he wanted to kill his co workers.

/s

Re: The PyCon Incident

#22

Post by danilocampos » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

Couple pieces to this.

First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer.

Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here.

The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke.

From PyCon's code of conduct:

"All communication should be appropriate for a professional audience including people of many different backgrounds. Sexual language and imagery is not appropriate for any conference venue, including talks."

A joke about dicks? That seems to run afoul of the code of conduct the attendees agreed to. Sexist or not.

There's a discussion to be had around the best way to confront these behaviors. But regardless of your position on that, it remains the employer's decision, and therefore their mistake, to fire this person.

(Disclosure: I am acquainted with Adria and we've appeared together on a panel.)

Re: The PyCon Incident

#23

Post by hkmurakami » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #2

"Anyone can post a photo and get you fired." No, the photo did not get you fired, your employer's questionable policies got you fired. If indeed a phallus joke between two persons in a private conversation is not objectionable, why was this person fired? As I see it here, the more and more "transparent" our private lives become with cell phone cameras and always-on video glasses, the more protection employees need fr…

Hmm he may have grounds for a lawsuit for wrongful termination then?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#24

Post by jamesaguilar » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

dmishe wrote: post #18

jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

and there goes the freedom of speech

Freedom of speech (in the United States, according to the Constitution and historical rulings of the Supreme Court) is freedom from government intervention in political and artistic speech, not permission to make lewd jokes and be free of private or personal consequences.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#25

Post by SODaniel » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Pretty obvious they fired the wrong person here. If someone worked for me and posted inflammatory images/statements about/involving a co-worker they would be the one needing to worry about their job.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#26

Post by cheald » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:28 PM UTC

dmishe wrote: post #18

jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

and there goes the freedom of speech

"Freedom of speech" is only applicable in the context of a government acting towards its citizens. It has zero bearing whatsoever on interactions between citizens that the government doesn't get involved in.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#27

Post by moistgorilla » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:29 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

Who got harmed by this joke being told? No one, thus it's harmless.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#28

Post by kanja » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:29 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #15

> the "forking" reference turned out to be a fabrication. > She never exchanged a word with the men. Anyone got a source for those claims? I thought her actions were undefendable the way she described them, but this would make it a whole different beast. And thanks to a lack of sources at the pastebin I don't know if that's true or made up (and I hadn't seen those mentioned anywhere so far).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

Re: The PyCon Incident

#29

Post by minimaxir » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:29 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #15

> the "forking" reference turned out to be a fabrication. > She never exchanged a word with the men. Anyone got a source for those claims? I thought her actions were undefendable the way she described them, but this would make it a whole different beast. And thanks to a lack of sources at the pastebin I don't know if that's true or made up (and I hadn't seen those mentioned anywhere so far).

From Adria's post: http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont...

I stood up slowly, turned around and took three, clear photos. I said back down, did another gut check and started composing a tweet. Three things came to me: act, speak and confront in the moment. I decided to do things differently this time and didn’t say anything to them directly.

The true "forking" meaning was described in the HN post by the one who was fired.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#30

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:30 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #15

> the "forking" reference turned out to be a fabrication. > She never exchanged a word with the men. Anyone got a source for those claims? I thought her actions were undefendable the way she described them, but this would make it a whole different beast. And thanks to a lack of sources at the pastebin I don't know if that's true or made up (and I hadn't seen those mentioned anywhere so far).

[deleted]