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Logic Pro X

apple.com

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Re: Logic Pro X

#191

Post by sjwright »

mortenjorck wrote: post #126
dclowd9901 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that I've had an iPhone for 4 years now and didn't realize that that icon looked the way you described it is more a testament to muscle memory as a design principle over anything aesthetic.

At this point, the phone handset icon is barely even an icon – it's essentially become a pictogram or a hieroglyph. I don't see this as something to lament or resist, though. While it's beneficial to know the visual etymology of the symbol, it's no more critical to understanding it than knowing the etymology of any of the words you use in normal conversation.

Just like how the 3.5 inch floppy disk has become the iconographic symbol for 'save'...

Re: Logic Pro X

#192

Post by sjwright »

qq66 wrote: post #159
kybernetyk wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about catastrophe but it's sad that Apple put that much manpower into pleasing a small but vocal minority of bloggers. Normal users really don't prioritize the faux leather vs flat issue that much - for them features count more.

Apple is not reacting to bloggers. They are reacting to the fact that their share of their segment has gone from 90% to 25% in two years. So now they'll try anything.

Correlation is not causation.

Re: Logic Pro X

#193

Post by sjwright »

gamegod wrote: post #109
calinet6 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with many of Apple's recent price drops (OSX, iWork, etc. etc.) I think it's a highly strategic and intentional move, not reflective of the greater market, but showing that Apple is enabling the larger success of their brand by enabling more people to purchase and use these pro apps at a lower price point. Plus, it will sell Macs, both laptops and Mac Pros. Smart.

This strategy benefits Apple, but screws over independent software developers/vendors. Look at the top 10 apps in the Mac App Store. That list is always dominated by Apple's applications like Logic and iWork because of this pricing strategy. Nobody else can afford to sell a DAW for $200 and make money. IMHO it's some kind of anti-competitiveness but I don't know if there's a term for it. Maybe it's just a fact of lif…

> That list is always dominated by Apple's applications

I haven't looked, but I bet the Microsoft equivalent is (will be?) dominated by their apps, like the Office suite. It's not unfair, it's just the reality of such markets.

A supermarket's home brand would probably also be the most successful brand in their stores, too.

Re: Logic Pro X

#194

Post by illicium »

mambodog wrote: post #156

I've been a long time Logic Pro user. Since the updates to Logic slowed to a trickle I've also been using Ableton Live a fair bit. I've always appreciated Logic's clean, well laid out interface (as opposed to say, Cubase) and its general sense of respect for the intelligence of its users. Unfortunately it seems Apple has gone in the direction of Garageband-ifiyng Logic; pushing it towards amateurs who want to easily…

> pushing it towards amateurs who want to easily piece together their musical ideas from other people's sounds

Ableton Live is even more centered around building music around loops and samples. Obviously you can track and mix recorded instruments in it just as well, but the live composition view (as opposed to the more traditional, linear arrangement view) that gives Ableton 50% of its name cannot be understated.

Re: Logic Pro X

#195

Post by adw »

igorgue wrote: post #88
bsaul wrote: post #44

The price tag really reflects that the music industry is the poorest of all creative industries (aka video, photo, 3D and web). When i think about all the genius algorithms and technologies that products like Ableton or logic Pro ship it really saddens me.

I think it's all about demand, that's why prices are lower, these days demand is a lot more than before, and everything is really accessible. With that being said, it's not cheap if you add other things you have to buy, studio monitors, a fast computer, and good midi keyboard (and that's the minimum for a full in-the-box musician).

I reckon you're looking at $1000 including software but excluding the laptop, basically; say $100-150 for decent headphones, $200-250 for monitors, $100 for a workable MIDI controller, $150 for an audio interface (something from M-Audio or Focusrite, say). That leaves around $350-400 for software, a cheap mic, stands, cables etc.

(And you'll probably want at least one more controller, whether a Launchpad-style thing, a fader box, or Akai pads.)

Re: Logic Pro X

#196

Post by cseelus »

scrumper wrote: post #171
mambodog wrote: post #156

I've been a long time Logic Pro user. Since the updates to Logic slowed to a trickle I've also been using Ableton Live a fair bit. I've always appreciated Logic's clean, well laid out interface (as opposed to say, Cubase) and its general sense of respect for the intelligence of its users. Unfortunately it seems Apple has gone in the direction of Garageband-ifiyng Logic; pushing it towards amateurs who want to easily…

Your comment is a bit like free jazz: it's all very impressive on the surface, but it doesn't really mean anything and ultimately one feels like it was just an exercise in ego massage. Logic has long had a home in the 'pro' world at the songwriting and demo production stage. You'll be hard-pressed to find an engineer in a commercial studio doing tracking or mixing in anything other than Pro Tools (though they certain…

These kind of insightful/thougful comments are one of the reasons I (still) love hackernews.

Re: Logic Pro X

#197

Post by debian69 »

cmpxchg8 wrote: post #173
gideon_b wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, Mac software is priced as bait for Apple hardware. Professional recording equipment is very expensive, and high-end producers have no qualms spending a few grand on Pro Tools plugins. Logic isn't the Photoshop of recording, it's more like Sketch.

People use Pro Tools because PT has been the industry standard for years. For tracking and mixing PT11 is pretty good. Some people master using PT, others prefer something like Sequoia. For MIDI work PT is several years behind Cubase, Logic and Ableton. Everybody has their own favorite. I've found Logic to fit my workflow very well and is not any less of a professional tool than the other DAWs I mentioned.

All of these are lightyears behind Mark of the Unicorn Digital Performer for midi work.

Logic btw is horrible for external midi or was at least up till version 9. I've lost count the times it mess's up with my virus ti.

Re: Logic Pro X

#198

Post by [deleted] »

calinet6 wrote: post #63
kunai wrote: post #42

For all the talk about how Apple hates skeuomorphism, when I got to this part I started wondering if I was looking at an April Fools' joke: http://imagebin.org/264732

It would be very poignant of you to point that out if the interface was not trying to emulate famous and well-known real-world objects. Music people eat that up. It's entirely the right choice, and the rest of the interface is clean. There are no problems here, just good design overall it seems.

[deleted]

Re: Logic Pro X

#199

Post by williamcotton »

IanChiles wrote: post #107
wavesounds wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also thinking about how cool open source albums would be! Your 'band' could now be 100 different people all spread out around the world. Then perhaps instead of an album being 'done' we'll just release v1.0.

And then if you had an idea on how to improve the music, it would just be a nice fork-edit-pull request away from improving the album. Truly collaborative music could be really cool.

> Truly collaborative music could be really cool.

Oh, the irony...

Re: Logic Pro X

#200

Post by mambodog »

scrumper wrote: post #171
mambodog wrote: post #156

I've been a long time Logic Pro user. Since the updates to Logic slowed to a trickle I've also been using Ableton Live a fair bit. I've always appreciated Logic's clean, well laid out interface (as opposed to say, Cubase) and its general sense of respect for the intelligence of its users. Unfortunately it seems Apple has gone in the direction of Garageband-ifiyng Logic; pushing it towards amateurs who want to easily…

Your comment is a bit like free jazz: it's all very impressive on the surface, but it doesn't really mean anything and ultimately one feels like it was just an exercise in ego massage. Logic has long had a home in the 'pro' world at the songwriting and demo production stage. You'll be hard-pressed to find an engineer in a commercial studio doing tracking or mixing in anything other than Pro Tools (though they certain…

As one of the other replies to your comment touched on, I am of the belief that it is very difficult to optimise a complex interface for all skill levels (while maintaining the same level of productivity for users at the high end).

You seem to be taking the term 'amateur' as dismissive or even insulting. I absolutely do not mean any offence by it, simply that it represents a shifting of focus of the application to a different group of users with a different set of needs. However, I see this group as already being served by something such as Garageband (perhaps with just a few additions of functionality).

I lament a truly great tool for high end users becoming watered down and less efficient for its established base, who know what they're doing and just need the interface to get out of the way as much as possible.

Regardless, I was attempting to express my genuine sadness and disappointment in one of my favourite tools becoming a bit less useful to users such as myself, I certainly didn't intend it to come across as an 'ego massage'.

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