On the removal of Come Back Alive • Hacker News Board

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#191

Post by sebow » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

mtmail wrote: post #128

sebow wrote: post #95

Not surprising.Most of the westerners in the corporate world(especially on the far left end of the spectrum) and people near that sphere of influence are fetishists of either the russian regime or the russian way of doing business.They talk about 'dangerous' people as being pro-russian because it's easier to de-legitimize people this way: the "russian bad" rhetoric is long-known since the atomic period of propaganda.…

I fail to see the connection to the Patreon situation in the reply. You're saying western leftist corporations are fetishists of the Russian regime? The reply ends with Trump/Biden/Clinton, then make a turn to mention Canada.

The connection is that lately(well actually since around 2017), when Patreon/other claim to stop supremacists/russian trolls/bots/"dangerous groups" it's mostly a smoke screen and based on nothing than ideologically-based censorship, or due to certain people being tied to russia. To give a little bit more context,when the western "anti-russian" folks (often left wing but not necessarily, there's some nuance here) talk about stopping russians but don't see the hypocrisy when they censor specifically people who are not pro-russian at all, but due to being labeled as such by the MSM, end up in the crosshairs when legitimate good-will gestures are being made.This is precisely why I also shortly mentioned the Canada situation, though arguably that's even worse because we're not talking about violent conflicts, and donations from US to CA are not "foreign meddling".

You might say: why does this bother you? Well, because for non-american citizens it actually makes it really harder to be pro-liberty and stand by US.Many people look up to US as a good reference of the struggle for liberty and freedom.And some can even tolerate US warmongering, but labeling pro-western (which is what most of UA is right now) foreigners wrongfully is really shitty, and the benefiting entities from this are mainly pro-war, western/eastern military industrial complexes.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#192

Post by reaperducer » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #159

keymone wrote: post #123

Quoted post unavailable.

> For those still looking to help, Ukrainian journalists have recommended several charities and platforms that would benefit from donations, such as the Ukrainian Red Cross Society, Voices of Children, and Revived Soldiers Ukraine. There are also 3,000+ Ukrainian creators on Patreon – and thousands more using other platforms – who would benefit from our support. Patreon seems to realize that donations are needed and…

totally reasonable course of action given their existing terms of service

Oh, well, if it's a violation of their Terms of Service, then everything is perfectly OK. /s

Notions like this are what makes it so easy for the real world to hate people in the tech bubble.

Protip: Terms of Service !>= Doing the right thing

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#193

Post by coffeefirst » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

brabel wrote: post #49

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know the final outcome of this. In the face of the overwhelming force Ukraine faces it seems to me any help we provide is just going to prolong the agony.

That's all I can think of... I just don't see an outcome where Ukraine receives so much support from the West that it will manage to beat Russia and make it go home without accomplishing any of its goals.... people seem to think that's a possible outcome. I wonder why when Kiev seems to already be surrounded and the USA government (who was right about warning about an imminent invasion!) has already said (correct me…

Not at all.

1. Appeasement is not an option. It just encourages them to do it again.

2. It is up to the Ukrainians if they want to fight to the bitter end. We can't make them, we can't stop them, but we can have their backs.

3. The purpose of resisting an illegal occupation is to drive up the cost of staying as high as possible. This works, even without economic sanctions. Just ask Vietnam or Afghanistan.

4. In a proxy war, countries officially "ignore" inconvenient facts because acknowledging them will cause a more complicated conflict. This happened all over the Cold War, but as recently as Afghanistan the US had to turn a blind eye to Pakistan's behavior.

5. Nothing is predetermined or strictly predictable. History is chaos. The only thing we know for sure right now is this will be hell for the Ukrainians.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#194

Post by b112 » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #161

user-the-name wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bitcoin is about freedom", you say as a response to Bitcoin being used to fund an invasion? How do you not see the absurdity of this claim?

You seem confused about freedom, and seem to think it means freedom to only do the things you want done. Freedom does not mean people, or countries, must do what one deems right or wrong. That is the reality of no restrictions on a thing. As an aside, maybe, fighting a physical invasion with harsh words, wagging fingers, and paper thin "we won't talk to you any more" restrictions isn't the answer? It's never worked b…

I see downvotes, but history is an excellent predictor.

Russia is held in an iron grip. The public can not, and will not successfully rise up. Any threat to Putin is either dead, or jailed.

Now, with these restrictions and sanctions, another country, a long time friend of Russia, China, also undergoing trade restrictions, will clearly work with Russia even more closely.

Do people really think that China and Russia do not have the resources, and industry, to not care about sanctions?!

And again historically, when chaos reigns, people take advantage of opportunities. I fully expect China to finally take Taiwan very soon.

Literally, this is the best time for them to do so.

Ukraine is just the match, people. The real flames are not even visible yet.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#195

Post by sofixa » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

monkeynotes wrote: post #154

Crowd sourced wars; we are living in a world a previous generation would hold up as a dark dystopia.

You should look up on the Crusades, liberty bonds, donation runs of metals from the population, etc. There's nothing dystopian about people donating for a military cause.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#196

Post by micromacrofoot » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:33 PM UTC

wickoff wrote: post #175

user-the-name wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bitcoin is about freedom", you say as a response to Bitcoin being used to fund an invasion? How do you not see the absurdity of this claim?

It's like oxygen. Is it bad because the invaders can also breathe it in? Ukranian government is very much pro-crypto. https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/parlament-uhvaliv-zakon-pro-v...

I don’t think anyone’s buying weapons with oxygen though

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#197

Post by radu_floricica » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:33 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #139

keymone wrote: post #123

Quoted post unavailable.

The same Bitcoin will be used by Russia to avoid sanctions.

The problem won't be having money. The problem will be (hopefully) spending that to buy stuff. Sanctions should make sure companies can't receive money easily from Russia, i.e. have issues properly declaring those funds in their accounting. BTC won't help with that.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#198

Post by modo_mario » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:33 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #111

jacquesm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, this is beyond disgusting.

Do you really think Ukraine has a reasonable chance of resisting this invasion? It doesn't look like it to me. So what are you offering other than prolonging the agony?

Did Ireland ever have a reasonable chance of resisting British invasion? Did Afghanistan ever have a reasonable chance of resisting Soviet/US invasion? Did Vietnam ever have a reasonable chance of resisting US/Chinese invasion?

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#199

Post by hef19898 » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

keymone wrote: post #123

Quoted post unavailable.

With the risk of getting a dead comment, I can't help but ask one question: Imagine groups in countries getting uninvited visits from NATO or US forces, pick the country of choice from Vietnam to Afghanistan, would have used Patreon for fundraising. Wpuld the perception, after they get kicked of patreon, be "fuck patreon" or "good that patreon isn't financing terrorists"?

Ukraine needs all the help they can get. And that Germany managed to send a couple of thousand helmets is a disgrace (Germany has no problems selling arms to Saudi Arabia or the UAE so). NATO should be on the forefront of sending arms and equipment to Ukraine, and they should have started months ago. That Patreon isn't offering its platform to fund weapon purchases for an active war is good.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#200

Post by erklik » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

peakaboo wrote: post #178

runarberg wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those still looking to help, Ukrainian journalists have recommended several charities and platforms that would benefit from donations, such as the Ukrainian Red Cross Society, Voices of Children, and Revived Soldiers Ukraine. There are also 3,000+ Ukrainian creators on Patreon – and thousands more using other platforms – who would benefit from our support. Patreon seems to realize that donations are needed and…

This is a war. Children are writing on reddit about explosions outside their windows. Patreon is doing the morally wrong thing here.

The funding was to buy guns, to buy UAVs, to train snipers and gunners. Not sure how any of those are going to help kids get away from explosions.

Facts are:

1. Patreon is a private company.

2. I don't think their policy around the whole funding military stuff has changed recently. If they changed the policy when this happened or to specifically target this. That would be quite terrible.

3. The page was against the rules of the company. It's perfectly reasonable for a company to remove a page against its rules. It's technically on the organizers, why did they create a page on a website that explicitly does not allow military funding.

I am guessing we wouldn't be this supportive of a private company funding the Iraqi Army fighting against the illegal occupation of their nation by the US.