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On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

nytimes.com

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Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#181

Post by it_learnses »

msie wrote: post #103
it_learnses wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how am I being racist? We have rich chinese immigrants from mainland literally buying their permanent residency and driving up the price of housing here. We have the chinese government pushing us around and our weak government isn't standing up for Canadians. I think it's a valid concern.

Hmmm, it's just a hunch I have given how you don't want any more Chinese immigration? And trade with them is automatically bad? - What's wrong with immigrants buying their residency? This happens all the time. At least you know they won't be a 'burden on the system' as some people would say. What the rich Chinese immigrants were doing was legal until some people didn't like seeing more Chinese people driving around t…

- Rich chinese are still buying up PRs through Quebec and then coming to Ontario and BC and buying up property. Also, cheating on exams to obtain study permits and work their way through a degree (cheating as much as possible) in order obtain PR amongst Chinese international students is rampant. Universities often overlook this because of the amount of money coming in, in terms of tuition.

- We are now allowing Chinese govt' backed companies to acquire Canadian companies that develop advanced military tech. This was banned even under Harper. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberal-green-l...

- Influential chinese are buying up political sway by "donating" to political campaigns: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/influential-chi...

I don't care about chinese people driving Audis. It's when they come over and treat Canada and Canadians as something that can be bought over, corrupted, and pushed around that frustrates me. And I'm not the only one here.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#182

Post by tomcam »

rtpg wrote: post #125
hyperdunc wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying you're concerned that anti-immigration speech is now more acceptable? If so, why?

Because most of it is wrong? Most of the speech is around ideas that have been proven wrong over and over again. It's the same as when people come in and talk about a database that "solves" CAP. Perhaps a better example is climate denial. Why do I have to listen to decades old debunked discussions over and over again? EDIT: I also disagree with the premise. Loads of polite company will happily discuss immigration res…

> It's not society's job to have all speech be acceptable

In the USA, it is. We call that the First Amendment

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#183

Post by taobility »

natch wrote: post #149
maverick_iceman wrote: post #50

I see this as an outgrowth of left-liberal student bodies clamping down on conservative speech on college campuses. If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Every speech is guaranteed to offend someone and that's verboten in today's campuses. As a libertarian, I was always worried about this and it was a main reason why I opposed social justice warr…

Pretty sure it was the university administration, not the student body, that said the Ann Coulter event wouldn't happen. And I believe this happened because at previous events clashes between protestors on both sides, right and left (or all sides if you prefer) had turned violent. And since then the university has changed its decision. Also I don't think we know that the protestors were students. Although it's reason…

All you talking about really hilarious. The Chinese students' protest has nothing related with Chinese government, all these is assumed by NYT. There are lots of political related protests in US campus, like protesting against Milo Yiannopoulos was supported by Hilary?! In NYT's point, all Chinese students are dumb, and they are brainwashed by Chinese government, and controlled by the gov. So, their protest is remote controlled by the gov. Really?

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#185

Post by woodandsteel »

Animats wrote: post #161
woodandsteel wrote: post #46

I think the Chinese government is making a huge mistake in the way it is oppressing freedom of speech at home and broad. China is now on its fourth political and economic system in the last century and a half. The present system is an accidental conglomeration of three quite contradictory philosophies: Confucianism, Marxism, and liberalism. It seems quite likely at some point it is going to prove unworkable. At that…

China is now on its fourth political and economic system in the last century and a half. The present system is an accidental conglomeration of three quite contradictory philosophies: Confucianism, Marxism, and liberalism. It seems quite likely at some point it is going to prove unworkable. The current system is working far better than the last few systems. Until 1985, China had regular famines. Now it has the largest…

You're right, China has been doing far better. The question is whether the present political system, which is to a great extent the product of a series of accidents, will hold up over the long term.

I think the reason Confucianism was so successful for so long is the same reason the US system has lasted for centuries, namely both are based on a coherent, well-thought out political and economic philosophy. China at present doesn't have anything like that.

As I see it, the problem with Confucianism is it was designed for an agrarian civilization, whereas today it is an industrial one. The Chinese have never really thought out what sort of system they need for today's world.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#186

Post by woodandsteel »

golergka wrote: post #169
woodandsteel wrote: post #46

I think the Chinese government is making a huge mistake in the way it is oppressing freedom of speech at home and broad. China is now on its fourth political and economic system in the last century and a half. The present system is an accidental conglomeration of three quite contradictory philosophies: Confucianism, Marxism, and liberalism. It seems quite likely at some point it is going to prove unworkable. At that…

> China is going to need to really think things out from basic principles and decide what sort of country it wants to be over the long term. That will take a great deal of intelligent, independent thinking. What you're describing sounds like a modernist, top-down approach, when an enlightened one in ivory tower decides on a best system of government and organization and then bestows it upon the people of the land. We…

>What you're describing sounds like a modernist, top-down approach, when an enlightened one in ivory tower decides on a best system of government and organization and then bestows it upon the people of the land. We all know how well something like this works out.

No, I am talking about lots of scholars talking with each other in public, and thinking about the unique nature of Chinese society, and having a big discussion with everyone.

>What China seems to be doing, on the other hand, is following the mentality of it's people. There's a lot of corruption and bad stuff happening in China - but it exactly follows the expectations and behavior of ordinary people,

Quite true. But part of the reason this is happening is China has never developed a new political philosophy that the people could support and use to improve the society.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#187

Post by woodandsteel »

vernon99 wrote: post #171
woodandsteel wrote: post #46

I think the Chinese government is making a huge mistake in the way it is oppressing freedom of speech at home and broad. China is now on its fourth political and economic system in the last century and a half. The present system is an accidental conglomeration of three quite contradictory philosophies: Confucianism, Marxism, and liberalism. It seems quite likely at some point it is going to prove unworkable. At that…

It sounds a bit arrogant. US systems are in a much worse shape than Chinese now (lack of innovation, constant bipartisan struggle, inability to make critical decisions and move forward fast, ridiculous expences) and a lot of that can be attributed to the current political system that supports individualism and freedom to express radically opposing opinions (creating turbulence and distracting from solvig the real pro…

You have to think things out for the long term. Authoritarian systems are often quite successful in the short term, but the have a closed decision making process that leads them into decline over the long term.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#188

Post by it_learnses »

jza00425 wrote: post #136
it_learnses wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm ok with immigrants from certain other countries. Also I'm referring to limiting chinese govt influence here.

I am not ok with racists like you. So I probably should wish Canada kick you out

how am I being racist?

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#189

Post by erikpukinskis »

echaozh wrote: post #117
dragonwriter wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a problem with the equation of anti-Tibet political intervention by China and anti-Palestine intervention by Israel then state your case. As much as Israel has colonized parts of Palestine by way of settlements, its nothing like the Chinese annexation and colonization of Tibet.

What about the white annexation and colonization of America?

Equally bullshit. I can admit Israel is better than colonial America. Kind of a low bar though.

I don't think I'd have a problem with people advocating for settlements if they acknowledged they were colonizing native people in order to eradicate their culture.

At least be honest about it. People act like Israel is some sort of liberal state.

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