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On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

nytimes.com

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Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#61

Post by sjg007 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #22
api wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation. With the absurd cost of these wars we could just buy the oil, or pay for megaprojects to replace it with gas (even gas to liquids), nuclear, and renewable power. There seems to be no rational explanation for the immense gravity well of Middle Eastern war and how it drags in Democrats and Republicans alike even if th…

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation The conspiracy theory is that the war serves to dislodge the population and increase refugee flows to Europe to destabilize the region economically and politically. The war in the Middle East is in truth a war against the European Union, especially Germany. So the story goes.

Then it would be Russia driving it... that explains Syria but not Iraq/ Afghanistan

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#62

Post by [deleted] »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #50

I see this as an outgrowth of left-liberal student bodies clamping down on conservative speech on college campuses. If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Every speech is guaranteed to offend someone and that's verboten in today's campuses. As a libertarian, I was always worried about this and it was a main reason why I opposed social justice warr…

[deleted]

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#63

Post by trendia »

swang wrote: post #58
maverick_iceman wrote: post #50

I see this as an outgrowth of left-liberal student bodies clamping down on conservative speech on college campuses. If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Every speech is guaranteed to offend someone and that's verboten in today's campuses. As a libertarian, I was always worried about this and it was a main reason why I opposed social justice warr…

give me a break. left, right, _anytime_ there is a controversial figure on either side there will be opposition from the polar opposite side. but sure, don't mention the times people on the "left" wanted to speak and were threaten and harmed by the "other side"

If the left tries to block the right, and the right blocks the left, the Chinese the anti-Chinese..... soon nobody will be allowed to speak.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#64

Post by bdhe »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #50

I see this as an outgrowth of left-liberal student bodies clamping down on conservative speech on college campuses. If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Every speech is guaranteed to offend someone and that's verboten in today's campuses. As a libertarian, I was always worried about this and it was a main reason why I opposed social justice warr…

Between the laughable analogy comparing Ann Coulter to the Dalai Lama and an argument evoking a strawman SJW, it's not clear if you're here to discuss things in good faith. Your hyperbole doesn't help your argument either. What topic of discussion do you fear having a discourse about?

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#65

Post by it_learnses »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #37
msie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we could somehow make people less ignorant and more tolerant here in Canada. People are always blaming immigrants for their problems.

Rising housing prices in Vancouver are a valid concern. I don't understand why the grandparent is downvoted. You don't combat racism by not recognizing valid grievances.

how am I being racist? We have rich chinese immigrants from mainland literally buying their permanent residency and driving up the price of housing here. We have the chinese government pushing us around and our weak government isn't standing up for Canadians. I think it's a valid concern.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#66

Post by maxxxxx »

paulmd wrote: post #10

Israel's been doing this for a long time. Try inviting pro-Palestinian activists to campus and see what happens. At the end of the day, everyone has the right to protest, whether that's Black Lives Matter or the Westboro Baptist Church or any other group. Always distressing to see it used to further what I see as oppression but there's not really a whole lot to be done about it. You get your opinions and I get mine.…

"Suck it up for 15 minutes, nobody is forcing you to march in support of some college graduation speaker. "

As far as I know these speakers make big bucks. If they spoke for free it would be easier to ignore them.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#67

Post by thanksgiving »

nostrademons wrote: post #41
api wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation. With the absurd cost of these wars we could just buy the oil, or pay for megaprojects to replace it with gas (even gas to liquids), nuclear, and renewable power. There seems to be no rational explanation for the immense gravity well of Middle Eastern war and how it drags in Democrats and Republicans alike even if th…

It could simply be bureaucratic imperative. 26 years of war in the Mideast has created a whole generation of policy wonks whose expertise is the Middle East; if we cease to be at war in the Middle East, then all of their jobs are on the chopping block and all of their expertise is useless; therefore, they have a very strong self-preservation incentive to recommend policies that continue the war in the Middle East.

> It could simply be bureaucratic imperative. 26 years of war in the Mideast has created a whole generation of policy wonks whose expertise is the Middle East; if we cease to be at war in the Middle East, then all of their jobs are on the chopping block and all of their expertise is useless; therefore, they have a very strong self-preservation incentive to recommend policies that continue the war in the Middle East.

I'm not saying everyone else's job is easy either but from an outsider's perspective I see the job at state department pretty challenging. Here's a quote from Condoleezza Rice's Wikipedia page:

> Following her confirmation as Secretary of State, Rice pioneered the policy of Transformational Diplomacy directed toward expanding the number of responsible democratic governments in the world and especially in the Greater Middle East. That policy faced challenges as Hamas captured a popular majority in Palestinian elections, and influential countries including Saudi Arabia and Egypt maintained authoritarian systems with U.S. support.

I'm sure there is some self-preservation going on, maybe explicitly or maybe even without someone thinking about it consciously but the other part is how much wiggle room do we have? Can we have the tough talk of "We don't negotiate with terrorists" while working with democratically elected governments with organizations that the government consider terrorists?

I keep thinking about this machine learning class where they talked about how classification and decision-making has always been a difficult problem. I think at the end of the blame goes straight up to the top, which is us the voting (or non-voting) public. At the end of the day, we are responsible for what our elected officials do or do not do regardless of the advice from the policy wonks. It is scary because I know so precious little about anything and yet I am to weigh all matters from oil pipelines to tariffs when I vote.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#68

Post by panzer_wyrm »

ajmurmann wrote: post #60
msie wrote: post #17

I just don't think all that effort is going to make a difference in anti-China sentiment in the US or anywhere else.

It might make it worse. I actually have many things I love about China and wouldn't mind moving there for a few years if it wasn't for this oppressive stuff.

If you don't involve yourself deep into politics the most oppressive thing there is that you have to eat with chopsticks.

It is hardly totalitarian dystopia. As long as you are there to make money and help the chineese do so you are fine.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#69

Post by dragonwriter »

api wrote: post #34
HarryHirsch wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation The conspiracy theory is that the war serves to dislodge the population and increase refugee flows to Europe to destabilize the region economically and politically. The war in the Middle East is in truth a war against the European Union, especially Germany. So the story goes.

I haven't heard that one. I have heard that it is a proxy war against Russia or China, but I'm not sure that makes sense either. Russia in particular has tons of oil and doesn't need any from elsewhere. The only thing that makes a little sense is that it's an end in itself: we must have war to support the war industry and it's associated jobs and social programs. It's not just corporations with an interest in this. F…

> Russia in particular has tons of oil and doesn't need any from elsewhere.

Russia seeks to deny it to potential geostrategic rivals. It's not a military advantage to have oil; it's an advantage to have it and deny it to your opponent.

Also, Russia may have enough for internal needs and modest exports, but that's perhaps insufficient for what is antiicoated in the event of a major conventional war.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#70

Post by killjoywashere »

api wrote: post #20
gogopuppygogo wrote: post #9

China is buying influence Globally as the United States and Europe cede soft power after years of war in the middle east. While not fantastic for rights of freedom loving people everywhere it is probably a good thing for Africans in general since they seem to be getting a lot of economic love from China in exchange for mineral rights. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/03/africa/what-africans-really-th...

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation. With the absurd cost of these wars we could just buy the oil, or pay for megaprojects to replace it with gas (even gas to liquids), nuclear, and renewable power. There seems to be no rational explanation for the immense gravity well of Middle Eastern war and how it drags in Democrats and Republicans alike even if th…

There's a few threads going on there, and it's too much for a Hacker News comment. There are entire university departments dedicated to this subject. I will offer some references for interested readers.

== Geography ==

Strategic control of the straits of Hormuz, the Suez Canal, and the Bosphorus, and Bab-el-Mandeb drive a huge number of commercial alliances.

== Israel ==

I separate this out from religion (below), because Israel's origin story is more than the sum of its parts. Read up on the the history of Zionism (1), Herzl (2), Weizmann (3), the Balfour Declaration (4), etc. I especially recommend Prof. Ruderman's Great Courses lectures on Jewish Intellectual History (5).

(1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

(3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Weizmann

(4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

(5) http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/jewish-intellectual-h...

== Population ==

Compare the population pyramids of the Middle East (1), Western Europe (2), and the US (3). You'll see a lot of young, unemployed workers in the Middle East. They live in dictatorships, which are often supported by foreign aid from Western democracies, traditionally considered a good investment in stability and UN security council votes, although certainly given to the dictators at the expense of the local population's human rights. Thus these angry young men have some grounds for pointing their anger at the West (4).

(1) http://regionalgeography.org/101blog/?p=1830

(2) http://www.indexmundi.com/european_union/age_structure.html

(3) http://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/20...

(4) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005GPSLHI/

== US-Russia-China proxies ==

Syria, Afghanistan (twice now), Iraq (three times including the Iran-Iraq war), Vietnam, Korea, Tibet, Taiwan: all proxy fights. The Russians want buffer states between them and Western Europe (which has been known to invade from time to time). China wants fealty from the satellite states that have from time to time expressed more or less fealty throughout history. China has also recently (last 20-30 years) realized that African markets are under-capitalized and under-exploited, and they are fixing that. This affects North Africa and East Africa too (Muslim nations), not just Central and West Africa.

== Religion ==

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam really do have some friction in their holy texts, both historical and dogmatic, that make the mixing pot of Palestine something less than a beacon of peace in the world. I'll refer you again to the Great Courses: Confucius, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad (1).

(1) http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/confucius-buddha-jesu...

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