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On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

nytimes.com

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Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#161

Post by Animats »

woodandsteel wrote: post #46

I think the Chinese government is making a huge mistake in the way it is oppressing freedom of speech at home and broad. China is now on its fourth political and economic system in the last century and a half. The present system is an accidental conglomeration of three quite contradictory philosophies: Confucianism, Marxism, and liberalism. It seems quite likely at some point it is going to prove unworkable. At that…

China is now on its fourth political and economic system in the last century and a half. The present system is an accidental conglomeration of three quite contradictory philosophies: Confucianism, Marxism, and liberalism. It seems quite likely at some point it is going to prove unworkable.

The current system is working far better than the last few systems. Until 1985, China had regular famines. Now it has the largest GDP in the world.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#162

Post by photon-torpedo »

curun1r wrote: post #108
HarryHirsch wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation The conspiracy theory is that the war serves to dislodge the population and increase refugee flows to Europe to destabilize the region economically and politically. The war in the Middle East is in truth a war against the European Union, especially Germany. So the story goes.

The more plausible explanation, to me, is that it's part of the wealth transfer to the upper class. US Government contractors make billions off war-related contracts and US contractors have lucrative contracts in many Middle East countries that those countries are forced to accept in exchange for US military protection. On top of that, military action is a great way to divert the populace's attention while you're low…

Seconded. These wars may not be in the interest of the US as a nation or of the US people, but those who profit from it have been doing so for a long time and gathered immense power, and are not willing to lose the source of their power. It's a kind of self-sustaining feedback loop.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#163

Post by baybal2 »

dmoy wrote: post #142
voodooranger wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure that the mouthpiece of the ruling family of Qatar is a reputable source for anything, much less any topic involving Israel.

If you don't want AJ's take on it, read it from haaretz: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.763768 http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.765533 Even if you read both sides, it's hard to tell whether or not it's a loud mouthed idiot who thinks he's hot shit, or something more insidious like AJ and some Brits are insinuating.

Ah, you know, Likud's mouthpiece i24 even have an Arabic channel

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#164

Post by unityByFreedom »

mistermann wrote: post #131
unityByFreedom wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't a legal right, it is a de facto right. Our legal system allows you to challenge that. If a campus prevented your conservative group's speaker from speaking, you can sue and win. If you don't do that, you are failing to uphold free speech as we have upheld it for centuries in America. Your civil rights do not enforce themselves. > This story, at least to me, also illustrates Chinese immigrants aren't intere…

> Our legal system allows you to challenge that. If a campus prevented your conservative group's speaker from speaking, you can sue and win. Sure, might as well sue mother nature for the temperature rise. What we're seeing is a force of nature, the legal profession cannot stop it, overall society has to choose to stop it, which means they have to choose to allow conservative voices.

> Sure, might as well sue mother nature for the temperature rise.

Plenty of court cases have set precedent for how individuals and businesses operate in the future.

When a court makes a ruling, people know they can be held similarly accountable, according to the written law, in the future.

> What we're seeing is a force of nature, the legal profession cannot stop it, overall society has to choose to stop it, which means they have to choose to allow conservative voices.

That's not actionable. "Society must do x" is not something you have any control over. You can sue and convince culture to follow written law that way.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#165

Post by gaius »

sjg007 wrote: post #93

I've met Chinese grad students who said the students at Tianamen square were terrorists.

A friend of mine played hosts to some Chinese students in London, as there was one happening he took them along to a demonstration that was happening that day. They were utterly baffled, he said, they asked why anyone would want to protest against the government?

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#166

Post by ouid »

metaphor wrote: post #154
agjacobson wrote: post #48

In 2016, China landed a robotic rover on the moon. The NY Times had fairly extensive coverage. For a solid month, the main article was in the top ten of forwarded articles, assuring that all nytimes.com readers would repeatedly see it in a prominent sidebar. This is unusual behavior. NY Times readers are interested, but easily jaded by space travel. And nothing lasts forever a month. Finally, I complained to the nyti…

>> This is unusual behavior. >> Click farm behavior. 2010 U.S. Census reported[1] 695,000 who self-identify as Chinese in the NY metro area alone ...never mind LA, Bay area, Boston, and Seattle...only a few of the largest, wealthiest, highly educated cities in the nation. Are you sure? [1] https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-11.pdf

I think if the nytimes were to actually have responded to agjacobsons claim, it would have been with an internal investigation, and then any action would have been taken only after the results of that investigation.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#167

Post by xherberta »

nostrademons wrote: post #41
api wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation. With the absurd cost of these wars we could just buy the oil, or pay for megaprojects to replace it with gas (even gas to liquids), nuclear, and renewable power. There seems to be no rational explanation for the immense gravity well of Middle Eastern war and how it drags in Democrats and Republicans alike even if th…

It could simply be bureaucratic imperative. 26 years of war in the Mideast has created a whole generation of policy wonks whose expertise is the Middle East; if we cease to be at war in the Middle East, then all of their jobs are on the chopping block and all of their expertise is useless; therefore, they have a very strong self-preservation incentive to recommend policies that continue the war in the Middle East.

Yes, that's interesting. Similarly, Yellowstone-area grizzlies were supposed to lose protected status when the population reached 600. It's at 2,000, they're mauling people and livestock, and they're still protected. Bear-related federal jobs remain secure.

"There is no war but our war."-wag the dog

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#168

Post by Noseshine »

agjacobson wrote: post #51
erikpukinskis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My feeling (and I realize this is little more than a feeling) is that corporations need there to be pockets of instability, both globally and domestically, to create a baseline of anxiety which makes people afraid to challenge the status quo. This keeps wages down, prevents people from starting new businesses, discourages people from trying for for higher level positions, etc. In other words, some light distant insta…

No. Automation and a large supply of workers keeps wages low. Businesses hate instability.

> Businesses hate instability.

Which ones? How many billions of GDP are created by arms manufacturers directly and indirectly, add to this the vast part of the economy supplying and/or supporting the military one way or the other, from washing clothes to direct semi-military support ("contractors").

So you tell me they want stability? I guess you are right - but they want it for their own growth rate and profit margins.

Re: On Campuses Far From China, Still Under Beijing’s Watchful Eye

#169

Post by golergka »

woodandsteel wrote: post #46

I think the Chinese government is making a huge mistake in the way it is oppressing freedom of speech at home and broad. China is now on its fourth political and economic system in the last century and a half. The present system is an accidental conglomeration of three quite contradictory philosophies: Confucianism, Marxism, and liberalism. It seems quite likely at some point it is going to prove unworkable. At that…

> China is going to need to really think things out from basic principles and decide what sort of country it wants to be over the long term. That will take a great deal of intelligent, independent thinking.

What you're describing sounds like a modernist, top-down approach, when an enlightened one in ivory tower decides on a best system of government and organization and then bestows it upon the people of the land. We all know how well something like this works out.

What China seems to be doing, on the other hand, is following the mentality of it's people. There's a lot of corruption and bad stuff happening in China - but it exactly follows the expectations and behavior of ordinary people, and exactly because of that, is more stable than an artificial and lawful democracy, implemented top-down, would be.

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