Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors” • Hacker News Board

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#171

Post by pixl97 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:28 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #136

tialaramex wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leases often work this way. In theory it's illegal in the UK (for a home, businesses are assumed to be big boys who can negotiate on equal footing) but it's still pretty common to be charged when you move out. Specifically UK law says "reasonable wear and tear" is just an expected cost of people living in a house you let to them - so e.g. they're going to wear out carpet after some years, but a cigar burn is not OK,…

I had friends whose landlord attempted to charge them cleaning fees for an apartment that they were renovating down to the studs (and had told them that, etc. They'd been working through the complex. They had to go to small claims. You can't claim a repair fee for some scratches and dents in drywall that you had crowbarred out the day after vacation of the property.

Always take full pictures of a unit the day you move in before any items are in, and the day you move out after cleaning. That's already saved me once when a property manager tried to do this to us.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#172

Post by b112 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:28 PM UTC

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

I wonder if the company making the detectors, pitched them on a free install.

They sound networked, so what if they only get cash, every time there is a hit? So the hotel is getting 1/2.

And with contracts like these, come with hefty fines if people back out. Even if the hotel now realises it's too sensitive, lots of false positives, the hotel now has to prove it, or pay big.

If the hotel refunds the guest, the hotel still owes the fee!

Quite the trap for the hotel.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#173

Post by sodality2 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:28 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #147

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

> The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong I want to call this "responsibility laundering". You get money, but wash away any responsibility, thus cleaning it.

There’s a great book about this called The Unaccountability Machine by Dan Davies.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#174

Post by dhalsten » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:29 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #141

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s tricky because the chains (like “Hyatt”) don’t actually own any hotels. They are generally owned by local ownership groups and it can be hard to figure out the real owner. That’s also why one Hyatt could be 5/5 and another 1/5. The chains don’t do a great job of quality control.

That's a cop out. What's the point of a brand if quality control is all over the place? Most McDonald's are franchises, and they famously give very similar experiences wherever you are. Not identical, obviously, but a Big Mac is a Big Mac. This is absolutely on Hyatt corporate. They should have policies regulating these types of detection systems.

I agree that Hyatt needs to take some responsibility, but not all franchises are equal, e.g. prior to inflation it was ~1-2M USD investment average to startup a McDonalds, you still must follow their rules, and it’s not hands-off.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#175

Post by BeFlatXIII » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:31 PM UTC

jfengel wrote: post #91

cpard wrote: post #42

From their FAQ: "Is it worth the investment? Absolutely. Hotels equipped with Rest have seen an 84x increase in smoking fine collection. Plus, our smoking detection technology helps prevent damage to rooms and reduce a number of future violations." Apparently there are way more people smoking than we thought there are or the sensor just generates a lot of false positives. The language they are using all over the site…

Is there that much smoking in hotels? Do they charge more for smoking rooms? A number like 84x suggests that it's basically zero now. That kinda makes sense. The only one who would notice is the cleaning staff, and relying on their word for "it smelled like smoke" sounds like a way to get a chargeback. They'd call you on it only if they were forced to take the room out of rotation to air it out. So maybe there are a…

I can't imagine people getting charged by this system not doing chargebacks.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#176

Post by HWR_14 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:31 PM UTC

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

It's not myopia. The hotel owner only owns one or two locations. They damage the national brand but they make more money for themselves. As long as new people loyal to Hyatt keep coming to their location, they are fine.

Of course, that's why Hyatt imposes standards on their hotels to keep the name.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#177

Post by whatever1 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:32 PM UTC

dawnerd wrote: post #19

I bet Rest just uses a cheap voc sensor and triggers when a set threshold is hit. I doubt there's any algorithm involved.

What if the product is just a random number generator?

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#178

Post by b112 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:34 PM UTC

progbits wrote: post #119

adrr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet it’s also a rev share model. Hotel doesn’t pay for the device but revenue is shared. Like the traffic cameras where they shorten yellow light to durations that a car is incapable of stopping in time.

So aside from Rest being incompetent morons ("temperature changes" from smoking??), they now also have incentive to make it trigger as much as possible.

So now when I play a game on my laptop, I get charged too??

(People were mentioning hair dryers)

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#179

Post by heisenbit » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:35 PM UTC

Looking at one of these pictures it seems the device is not fitted to the ceiling but 30cm above ground. So not the best place to pick up CO or to detect fire.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#180

Post by HWR_14 » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 3:36 PM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #160

lxgr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their "NoiseAware" main product line also sounds incredibly dystopian. Apparently, that's a "privacy-safe" microphone listening in rental properties, to "detect crowds gathering"...!? This type of creepy stuff, together with Airbnb's horrible business practices (last time they wanted access to my checking account transaction history via Plaid!) and enabling scammy hosts, is why I'm back to just staying at regular hot…

AirBnB partiers are a real problem, I live in a tourist destination and regularly hear horror stories about a residential neighborhood suddenly having crowds descend on a house that's become a party rental. There's nobody to notice it getting out of hand and tell them to chill before the neighbors call the cops because the owner is a holding company on the other side of the country. Of course Airbnbs are also a real…

I think repeatedly calling the police is the correct way to handle an AirBnB party house in your neighborhood. I don't want to instead have the unpaid job of monitoring the guests for the absentee owner and be responsible for telling them to chill.

Of course, a long term neighbor it is different. There the police would be a last resort.