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Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

improveyoursocialskills.com

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Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#171

Post by arthurmerlin »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #138
Sharlin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, it’s important is to realize that even when people open up to you about their problems, that still does not mean that they are asking for advice! It’s very likely that what they primarily want and need from you is sympathy and validation. If you’re unsure, ask first.

I've learned that people hardly ever want advice. Mostly, they want you to tell them that everything is okay. The hard thing to square is, if you really care about someone, and you really think you have some input that could help them, you need to figure out how to communicate that without annoying them / hurting their feelings. It's also important not to have an ego when giving advice / input. It's likely that you'r…

At least for me, I would love advice that perfectly solves all my problems. But probably this advice doesn't exist, because if it did, I would have figured it out already. I often have conversations that go like this -

Me: I have this problem that sucks.

Other person: Have you tried A?

Me: No, I thought about that already. A isn't a good idea because of B.

Other person: Well, what about C?

Me: No, I thought about that too. C isn't a good idea because of D.

Other person: (Angrily) Well, I don't know how to help you then.

And so now in addition to having to deal with a hard problem to solve, I have to deal with making other people angry about how they can not solve my hard problems.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#172

Post by SkyBelow »

babadabada wrote: post #147
SkyBelow wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Most people don't want to talk code. Thus, given a demographic breakdown that relates neither positively nor negatively with talking code, one can assume the general pattern applies. Most old people don't want to talk code. Most young people don't want to talk code. Most left handed people don't want to talk code. None of these are discriminating. They are stating that a pattern true of the general population al…

How? Because making broad assumptions about 50% of the population isn't a cool thing to do. Especially given the excessive amount of nonsense women in tech (and not in tech) have to deal with on a daily basis. Talk like this leads to women feeling excluded from the tech community. Also, specifically calling out "young women" as not being interested in tech really makes a lot of assumptions. Generally, people will tal…

>Because making broad assumptions about 50% of the population isn't a cool thing to do.

Is it that those assumptions are not cool to make about 100% of the population either? Is it wrong of me to assume that the average person does not want to talk about code?

Because if it isn't wrong to make the assumption about the average person, but it is wrong to make it about some subset, then isn't that, at its very core, treating that demographic different than the average?

>Generally, people will talk about most topics - even if they aren't passionate about those topics themselves.

Yes, most people will engage in enough conversation to be polite. But there is a significant difference between talking about something a person cares about and them politely carrying on a conversation they aren't interested in. These are not the same behavior and do not generally result in the same outcome . And none of this has to do with gender as I notice this when talking with friends of either gender.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#173

Post by solipsism »

therealcamino wrote: post #85
x2f10 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or someone who reads. Can you please elaborate? I don't follow.

Often, mispronouncing a word means you've seen it in print, but haven't heard it said aloud. So I've heard some people say that they mentally frame it not as an embarrassing mistake but as a sign that the speaker reads a lot.

Yeah but the qualification "unless it's someone who reads" is obviously wrong. Lots of people read.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#174

Post by mrmonkeyman »

rollerboi wrote: post #90
wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more t…

2 and 3 suck, do more of 1.

Especially 2, don't bring up your own experiences in a reflexive manner like this. Only do it when it absolutely makes sense i.e. it is requested explicitly.

"I lost my dad" - "Sorry for your loss." "Thanks, I.." - "My father went 10 years ago and built boats for a living and yada yada ...." "Sigh..."

This is. So. Annoying.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#175

Post by 08-15 »

journalctl wrote: post #109
wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Sometimes there’s nothing else you can do.

Sometimes people just want someone to blame. If you listen, you might become that someone.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#176

Post by ljm »

wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

If this is important to you, I strongly recommend you to explore short courses on active listening and coaching.

As part of the process you learn that you’re not there to offer solutions, you’re there to listen and let those people find their own solution.

You know, like the rubber duck.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#177

Post by mrmonkeyman »

arthurmerlin wrote: post #171
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've learned that people hardly ever want advice. Mostly, they want you to tell them that everything is okay. The hard thing to square is, if you really care about someone, and you really think you have some input that could help them, you need to figure out how to communicate that without annoying them / hurting their feelings. It's also important not to have an ego when giving advice / input. It's likely that you'r…

At least for me, I would love advice that perfectly solves all my problems. But probably this advice doesn't exist, because if it did, I would have figured it out already. I often have conversations that go like this - Me: I have this problem that sucks. Other person: Have you tried A? Me: No, I thought about that already. A isn't a good idea because of B. Other person: Well, what about C? Me: No, I thought about tha…

It is because you are making excuses and looking for ways out when a simple, but harsh, solution suffices. It is extremely tiring to have to deal with endless "cannot do D, because of C, because of B, because of A" when you just know that A through C are all BS reasons and you yourself as the listener would cut right through it. That is what causing the anger, not your "hard problem".

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#178

Post by username90 »

notJim wrote: post #137
whatshisface wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be careful about those safe environments, as they often simply shift the weapons from loudness and brashness to sweet-sounding talk and subtle negative suggestions. It changes the breed of social warrior who wins from the "Conan the Barbarian" type to the "Mean Girls" type, but that doesn't help good ideas. One example of a dysfunctional strategy that only works in safe environments is the technique of su…

That's a great point, and one I've seen in action. I haven't seen the particular strategy you describe, but I've seen others. People can absolutely weaponize efforts to create psychological safety. IMO psychological safety is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for being able to disagree about ideas and come to better ones. I think great leadership is when someone notices that happening and shuts it down.

Goodhart's law applies to psychological safety. It is a good measure of a culture until people starts to actively work towards psychological safety. I feel like most of these tips and tricks people use to improve their social skills are just making it harder to rat out the toxic people, it doesn't actually make people less toxic.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#179

Post by robocat »

wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

> not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers.

I strongly disagree here. Friends should try and help friends IF they have the skills to do so. And we should all try and learn how, while recognising our limitations (I'm an engineer stereotype so I don't pretend to myself I am very skilled).

I agree that knowing when to keep your mouth shut is obligatory, and I completely agree it is extremely difficult to help without alienating.

You should know some people who do have the skills to gently and successfully help others, often older and less obvious. I personally try and learn that skill by copying their tact and non-judgement. Beware that many people completely lack the skills even though their job should need it (I've seen nurses, psychologists, social workers etc with nearly zero ability - Dunning Kruger?).

> People will ask for advice if they really want it

Yet there are plenty of counter-examples, especially when people lack the insight to even see their own problems.

> I’ve lost friends over this

I've risked losing friends over this when I've felt strongly about it. Take time to myself to think about whatever the issue is. Losing a friend can be better than not trying to help a friend.

Acquantances are different: personally I let most people do what they will - who am I to judge their path? How can I help if I don't know them well, and I am not around as needed? I guess there are people that can and do help in a short encounter, but either they are uncommon or I don't recognise the skill.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#180

Post by ljm »

rollerboi wrote: post #90
wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more t…

I’m a coach in training and question number 3 there is a powerful question. That’s a really great question to ask because you’re not getting involved in the topic, you’re not giving them ideas, and you’re not working through it for them.

The others are too nuanced to easily explain, but “what are you going to do with that,” is a fucking fantastic question when a friend confides in you. You’re right that this requires some level of safety, but you are making sure they are still self-empowered.

The worst thing you can do is remove that agency and try to solve someone’s problems for them.

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