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Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

theguardian.com

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Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#161

Post by shinryuu »

conductr wrote: post #31
nullhole wrote: post #2

Maybe I'm prudish, but I really dislike the term 'enshittification'. It sounds ugly, and it makes what would otherwise be polite discussions vulgar. 'Degradation' seems to carry most (all?) of the same meaning and doesn't have those downsides.

I don’t mind it at all, because it’s purposefully turning to shit. Degradation sounds slow natural. Like how a computer bought in 2005 that runs just as well as back then has seemed to have degraded 20 years later, no fault of its own. I do have a hard time believing this author coined the term in 2022. I’ve had this phase as part of my vocabulary for much long than that to describe the same exact phenomenon, I know…

You are right. Looking at ngram it seems to have appeared around 2016. But it was even around in 1970s but perhaps in a different context. So it’s perhaps better to say that he popularised it.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#162

Post by Symbiote »

dwedge wrote: post #64

I bought a $120 book from Amazon a couple of months ago, internationally, and they sent the wrong book. I told them, and they said they'd refund it, don't need to send it back, and they'd even add $15 credit. The refund never arrived so a few weeks later I got in touch again and they said I need to send it back if I want a refund. They told me the previous CSR had lied to improve ratings. I asked who I can complain t…

> Another time

Why is there another time? I don't understand why someone would continue purchasing from a shop after the first experience.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#163

Post by madaxe_again »

b112 wrote: post #128
madaxe_again wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m not spending hundreds of thousands of euro on legal fees to fight a trillion dollar company over a €300 piece of crud. That’s part of their calculus, too.

You don't have small claims court? Here in Canada, it's $150 to register, you fill out the form yourself, no lawyers are allowed, and you argue your case in front of a judge. (A company can have someone represent them, but if it's a lawyer, they must also have a rep. from the company there. and there can be no legalise, and the judge must explain anything to you if you ask) There is no forced discoverability. EG, the…

They do, but it’s only available to Portuguese citizens - I am a legally resident alien, but am excluded from that system, as it requires a citizen card to start a claim.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#164

Post by madaxe_again »

OJFord wrote: post #139
madaxe_again wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the law, yeah - and if the goods are faulty it’s actually up to two years. But this is Amazon - they don’t need to follow consumer protection laws - I think their specific get out is that they’re Amazon Spain, and I’m having stuff shipped to Portugal, and Spanish consumer protection regs (which implement the EU regs) only protect consumers in Spain . That was meta’s get-out, too.

In my experience in the UK, Amazon is better than consumer protection laws, and miles better than other vendors. They won't question or require lots of information etc. to support things in however many years of warranty, or even outside of it. Not to mention the standard is 30 day returns, more than double the legally mandated 14 for distance selling. I don't understand why you were even talking to support - if it w…

Because it’s Amazon Spain and I live in Portugal - they only do return labels etc. for a collection point 200km from where I live, otherwise, you have to ship stuff back at your own expense. No option to automatically open a return.

It’s basically the Amazon uk returns process from 20 years ago.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#165

Post by Symbiote »

madaxe_again wrote: post #114
thaumasiotes wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this is Amazon - they don’t need to follow consumer protection laws No one needs to follow consumer protection laws if you don't sue to make them.

Yeah, I’m not spending hundreds of thousands of euro on legal fees to fight a trillion dollar company over a €300 piece of crud. That’s part of their calculus, too.

Why not make a chargeback on the card you used to pay?

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#166

Post by microtonal »

madaxe_again wrote: post #98
monegator wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon told me to go hang, said I couldn’t return used goods I don't buy it. Don't we have actual consumer protection laws here in europe? We can return anything we bought online in 14 days time, full refund, no questions asked.

That’s the law, yeah - and if the goods are faulty it’s actually up to two years. But this is Amazon - they don’t need to follow consumer protection laws - I think their specific get out is that they’re Amazon Spain, and I’m having stuff shipped to Portugal, and Spanish consumer protection regs (which implement the EU regs) only protect consumers in Spain . That was meta’s get-out, too.

I think their specific get out is that they’re Amazon Spain,

IANAL, but I don't think it matters. Any webshop in the EU must sell to all EU customers and they should provide the same warranty, etc. to all EU customers as if you were buying it in the country they are selling from (Spain in this case). The EU is a single market.

https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-r...

Amazon is violating EU consumer protection law here, but they probably do it because most customers will feel helpless and not sue them. If you do not want to sue them, the best thing is probably to file a complaint with the Portuguese consumer authority. It's really important to do this, because only when enough people do such a thing, a pattern can be established and they can warn or sue Amazon.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#167

Post by dwedge »

Symbiote wrote: post #162
dwedge wrote: post #64

I bought a $120 book from Amazon a couple of months ago, internationally, and they sent the wrong book. I told them, and they said they'd refund it, don't need to send it back, and they'd even add $15 credit. The refund never arrived so a few weeks later I got in touch again and they said I need to send it back if I want a refund. They told me the previous CSR had lied to improve ratings. I asked who I can complain t…

> Another time Why is there another time? I don't understand why someone would continue purchasing from a shop after the first experience.

They are in reverse chronological order. I only buy cheap crap from them now, like Ethernet cables, sd cards, books. Never anything over $20 and I never will

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#168

Post by TrackerFF »

I've noticed that the enshitifacation of e-commerce marketplaces has become a global problem. Here's what I've observed for the past 5 years or so:

- Pretty much every webstore of size will now list / sell everything, where 99% of the products are not in stock, and needs to be ordered - probably from the vendors in China, or whatever.

- Explosion in independent 3rd party sellers, within those stores. You now have to check that you're explicitly purchasing from the webstore you're visiting, and not some third party they allow to sell through them. Luckily some stores have become better at notifying the buyer that the item is being bought from someone else, and not the store.

- Acceptance of lookalike products.

Basically, it seems like all the stores are competing to be AliExpress and Temu now.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#169

Post by FabHK »

_zagj wrote: post #22

I don't use Amazon often, but as a fan of puzzle games, I really appreciate the UX (which regularly changes, so as to not get stale) of trying to buy something without inadvertently signing up for Prime.

Took me a second to realize this apparent praise is anything but.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#170

Post by jwr »

The ideas are correct, but the argument in the article… could use some improvement. In stage 1 ("good for users") Cory describes how the platform becomes bad for users. In stage 2 ("abusing users, good to businesses") he actually describes how Amazon is BAD to businesses. Not the best presentation of his fantastic "enshittification" term.
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