New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan • Hacker News Board

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#161

Post by mehlmao » Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 11:26 PM UTC

shipscode wrote: post #139

refulgentis wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you frame it that was ($450/month) I'm more amenable, but then I check myself: am I reacting emotionally to "low margin" and the bitterness, and maybe I'm just amenable to that? Double checking myself, the person we're looking for: - [works at / owns] a low margin business in downtown manhattan - has a car - needs their car in Manhattan - has to take their car out of Manhattan at some point - can afford to wait…

Wash n fold services don’t deserve to exist in lower Manhattan. Good take.

"Yeah we lost the lottery today, so we can't pick up / drop off your clothes. No, we don't know if we'll win the lottery tomorrow either."

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#162

Post by cgriswald » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #87

thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The infrastructure to count passengers would be either a security nightmare because of the surveillance requirements or a inefficient mess where you have to stop for some person to manually see how many people are in the car. The system they are describing is better.

Fwiw, California's new toll expressways do this - counts people in the car at speed, and charges different rates based on that - so the technology already exists.

California's system only cares about 1, 2, or 3+ passengers. The counting is primarily done with a transponder that is set by the driver (and a display is shown so the highway patrol can catch violators). At toll booths, they also snap photographs from the sides to catch violators. It is not only far from perfect, but wouldn't be useful if you actually need to know the exact number of passengers in (say) a van or bus.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#163

Post by PM_me_your_math » Mon, Dec 11, 2023, 11:30 PM UTC

philip1209 wrote: post #24

As a Manhattan resident, I’m excited. There should be at least one city in the USA built for people instead of cars. I understand it’s not for everybody, but 75% of the residential space in the county is only zoned for insipid, paved single-family home suburban hellscapes. Leave one city for people who want a European-style walkable city.

[dead]

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#164

Post by varispeed » Wed, Dec 13, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

avbanks wrote: post #159

varispeed wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty is relative. Someone may be compensated well enough to afford rent, parking and all that, but after paying everything they have little money left for themselves. That $15 may eat into this meaning you may reconsider whatever arrangement you have - effectively pricing you out. > The extra $15 will discourage people from making unnecessary trips into the city thus reducing traffic/congestion and improving quali…

> Yes, people who can't afford spending $15. Anyone else will continue as they do, as private transport is safer, quicker and more convenient - plus there will be better traffic, as the poor will be taken off the road. This isn't true most of the time is quicker to take public transportation due to the congestion issues. Cars don't scale. > How is that going to do that? If someone is affluent, I don't think they are…

> This isn't true most of the time is quicker to take public transportation due to the congestion issues. Cars don't scale.

If this isn't true then why the need for the charge then?

> Yes the point is to discourage people from driving into Lower Manhattan. Lower Manhattan is easily accessible by public transportation.

Only those who can't afford extra $15.

> The poverty rate for NYC is $35,000 if someone can afford to pay $24,000 yearly in parking I doubt they're in poverty

You are missing the point. Something like this is called wage slavery and many people are affected by it. They earn relatively a lot of money, but after spending on the necessities they have very little money on themselves. Someone can have a job that requires them to travel through the centre or actually park there and despite the high cost they can't afford to quit it because it is better to have some money than nothing. On paper they are doing well, but in reality they are miserable with no way out.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#165

Post by DiggyJohnson » Thu, Dec 14, 2023, 6:00 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #102

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a serious proposal or am I missing how this is a joke?

I still don't see what is wrong, it prevents congestion, it is fair and equal for everyone. And if they can charge based on license number, it is no more difficult to implement. Isn't the goal here to have less cars in the zone? Thus goal is preventing them from entering. And giving everyone equal chance to win right of entry is fairest model.

But then you would completely lose the ability to plan ahead. You would not know how you were going to travel until the lottery results.