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New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

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Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#101

Post by wenc »

LargeTomato wrote: post #61
shipscode wrote: post #3

This idiocy will only hurt the working class employees who drive in from the outerboros.

Simple, don't drive to Manhattan. If you're truly working class you won't have a car anyway you'll be taking the excellent public transit infrastructure. They should jack the price to >$50. Anyone paying $8000/no for a 1bd in Manhattan can afford an extra 50*30=$1500 for the privilege of congesting everyone else's roads.

You're right about the majority of people who live in outer boroughs.

But my mind went to one demographic in particular -- Halal food carts. Those folks usually live in Queens and they have to haul their carts into Manhattan (unless I'm wrong about that).

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#102

Post by Ekaros »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #41
Ekaros wrote: post #30

Why not just run daily lottery in previous day? With non-transferable licenses to enter. Win one and you get in, don't win one and you are barred from entering?

Is this a serious proposal or am I missing how this is a joke?

I still don't see what is wrong, it prevents congestion, it is fair and equal for everyone. And if they can charge based on license number, it is no more difficult to implement.

Isn't the goal here to have less cars in the zone? Thus goal is preventing them from entering. And giving everyone equal chance to win right of entry is fairest model.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#103

Post by lwansbrough »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #99
lwansbrough wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urban sprawl generally refers to the development of suburbs outside cities. That’s what I was referring to.

I thought it was a more general term, and that suburbs were distinct. But it does appear that suburbs are considered a part of urban sprawl. Regardless, manicured lawns are an environmentally bad thing on their own. When you mentioned urban sprawl I first thought of expansion of the urban heat-island effect.

Lawns are my least favourite part of America. They’re just so ugly.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#104

Post by xkekjrktllss »

logicchains wrote: post #82
xkekjrktllss wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be joking. Since tyrant Robert Moses, NYC is undeniably built for cars. Maybe if anything had changed since then you would have a point, but the fact is American society is wholly incapable of even maintaining, much leas building, public infrastructure due to its demented obsession with privatization and profit, so NYC's transit system is a clusterfuck of rot and in no way something to be proud of.

>public infrastructure due to its demented obsession with privatization and profit It's not privatisation that created laws forcing a minimum number of parking spaces. You can bet if there were no zoning laws or mandatory parking space requirements US cities would be a lot more walkable, like Asian cities.

>It's not privatisation that created laws forcing a minimum number of parking spaces.

It is privatization that renders the government only capable of punitive solutions (regressive fees, etc.) rather than constructive ones (public infrastructure upgrades, etc.). Realize the revenue from these fees will be 99% laundered and swallowed up by private contractors. That ink is already dry.

>You can bet if there were no zoning laws or mandatory parking space requirements

Nonsense. This is the demented obsession I described above. You aren't making any sense at all. Working people aren't lobbying for parking space requirements; petty business owners are.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#105

Post by aaomidi »

windows2020 wrote: post #100

"...$2.50 that will be charged to vehicles from ride-hailing platforms such as Uber..." One simple trick can save you $12.50. NYC is out of control with taxes and regulations, but... When I lived downtown, each morning, the glass of water on my nightstand would have a little oil slick of sorts atop it. When everything was shut down at the start of the pandemic, the constant stream of vehicles stopped. My water was th…

> I think some people are totally nuts for how much they hate cars. It's as if they don't understand life beyond the island. But it would be nice to reduce pollution there.

Manhattan tbh does not need passenger cars at the scale it has. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to say, if you wanna come here leave your car outside of the city?

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#106

Post by shipscode »

refulgentis wrote: post #77
Ekaros wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 15 is clearly unfair price for the poor people. This only benefit the rich who already are cause for majority of emissions. Lottery is absolutely fair for everyone. OCR at borders would be easy to implement. Just have a gate and diversion lines back to where car entering came from. And simple online sing-up system and rng run every night is extremely simple software project. Or if car without daily lottery ti…

Is this set of people greater than 0? A) can't afford $15 B) have a car C) need the car in Manhattan D) can afford to wait N days to enter Manhattan I grew up poor -- thank you FAANG, am not anymore -- but sometimes I still feel the same icky anger I used to feel when people would make abstract arguments that presumed being poor is pure destitution, just to keep things interesting for some argument.

Ya, you just described any low margin business in downtown Manhattan. Maybe they can “afford” it but swiping $450/month from them is bs when they’re literally running the city.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#107

Post by [deleted] »

pxeboot wrote: post #59
lwansbrough wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the income pays for more transit and reduces transit times for buses, why would the public want to stop that trend?

Because cars/parking still take up far to much space in dense city centers, making them more loud, dirty and dangerous than they would be without (most) cars.

[deleted]

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#109

Post by avbanks »

varispeed wrote: post #46

Now that's some gaslighting there. Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter. If it was about actual congestion then the fee would be proportional to one's affluence, otherwise the rich will just come in as if nothing was imposed.

I'm sorry but this isn't indicative of the reality of driving in NYC. If you drive into NYC, you will have to park. When you park you'll need to pay for a lot or a garage. Daily parking in NYC can cost $50-100, monthly subscriptions can easily run over $500. Even if the unlikely happens and you find a parking meter those are $10 an hour. Poor people aren't driving into NYC, they're commuting on trains like everyone else. It should also be noted the congestion fee is for driving into Manhattan, not around.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#110

Post by _Wintermute »

gafage wrote: post #58
throw__away7391 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem oblivious to the irony here—owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world. Talking about Manhattan specifically, this is already about the most expensive place in the world and the only place in the US with this scheme in place, adding more traffic isn’t going to change that so no point in using it as an example of anything. Plenty of countries that are not so car dependent have pede…

>owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world In the context of Greater London this is absurd.

Car ownership is correlated with income in London. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-do...
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