161–170 of 221 posts
[flagged]
Like most things in the world, black and Black is not so black and white. There's a reason some people prefer to self-identify as capital B Black. Maybe look it up before dismissing it entirely. CJR shared some perspectives in the process of explaining an update to their style guide: https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php A piece from The Atlantic that goes deep: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Inertia is not merely caused by a psychological block, overcoming it carries real tangible costs. There are countless examples where technically superior solutions exist, but the benefits they offer do not outweigh the cost of overcoming inertia. What colossal cost do you see in granting users the choice of, say, picking their default branch name instead of being forced to use "master"? What cost do you see in refe…
The costs were moderate, not colossal. But they were still bigger than the benefits, which were tiny to non-existant. Because 99.99% of people do not actually see a "master branch" as a racially-charged or bigoted term. In the case of Kubernetes, I suppose those terms were chosen from the beginning so there was no cost of switching. And hence why no one complained about it. Which incidentally supports my claim: that…
Care to point out any concrete example? Just pick the absolute best example you can imagine. So far none was provided. There's all this talk about "cost" but apparently it's so costly that even providing a concrete example is prohibitively expensive.
> In the case of Kubernetes, I suppose those terms were chosen from the beginning so there was no cost of switching. And hence why no one complained about it.
What's there to complain? Absolutely nothing at all.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
I'd never hire a software engineer who tried to make major disruptive changes to play meaningless language games and score social status points.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The costs were moderate, not colossal. But they were still bigger than the benefits, which were tiny to non-existant. Because 99.99% of people do not actually see a "master branch" as a racially-charged or bigoted term. In the case of Kubernetes, I suppose those terms were chosen from the beginning so there was no cost of switching. And hence why no one complained about it. Which incidentally supports my claim: that…
> The costs were moderate, not colossal. Care to point out any concrete example? Just pick the absolute best example you can imagine. So far none was provided. There's all this talk about "cost" but apparently it's so costly that even providing a concrete example is prohibitively expensive. > In the case of Kubernetes, I suppose those terms were chosen from the beginning so there was no cost of switching. And hence w…
> What's there to complain? Absolutely nothing at all.
Well yes, that's my point. We agree on that. In the case of git, I am sure if "main" had always been the convention there would have been nothing to complain about as well. In fact, I am sure the same people who complained about the change from "master" to "main" would have complained about a change from "main" to "master".
Earlier quoted context omitted.
So we don't care about that because it's a minority, right? Oh, the irony :)
No my point is that I think the average person is not prioritizing this issue because they cannot relate.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've worked with some of the very best in the industry and never seen anyone do great things by being intolerant of people Same here. It's my 23rd year as a software engineer and I'm lucky to be a part of this crowd. Tonnes of tolerant, talented, brilliant people. Being tolerant doesn't however doesn't mean we like being subjected to bullshit like the master -> main change.
It's just writing a shorter word. Why does it bug you so much. Unless you want to make bigger changes to society to counter the effects of racism instead? Cause we'd like that.
Not only that, it implies that black people are unable to contextualise vocabulary.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and nobody cared about it you see, this is the gift of American progressive cultural imperialism. Suddenly, the only historiography that can exist in the world is that of American trustafarians who try to minimize their shame of being born wealthy heirs of the slave-owner class by spreading the shame on white immigrants that arrived way after slavery got disbanded. And once you set the precedence that you can at wi…
I'd say at least some Europeans have their own guilt to deal with, if we're saying the sins of the parents should be visited on the children... Not like the US has a monopoly on terrible history
I’d say this is the binary option we routinely fail to make the right choice.
> renaming master branches/HDDs to main because of rAciSm
Sticking to OP‘s topic its just ridiculous to have such a discussion in Europe because we are supposedly to feel guilty about what other people did to African Americans.
Lest for the majority of US slaves well into the 1700s were European catholics, or that much of European borders and coasts were routinely raided in the hunt for white slaves (Cornwall, Ireland, Russia…)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that's not even what "master" means in git. There is no "slave" branch.
> But that's not even what "master" means in git. There is no "slave" branch. I think you're trying to cherry-picking debatable examples as strawmen. The central argument was not that some inclusive terms may or may not extend to all applications. The central argument being made in this thread by anti-inclusiveness proponents is that each and every single proposal to use terms that are not racist or bigoted should be…
> The «master» to «main» change was totally unnecessary and B.S. imho.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd say at least some Europeans have their own guilt to deal with, if we're saying the sins of the parents should be visited on the children... Not like the US has a monopoly on terrible history
> if we're saying the sins of the parents should be visited on the children I’d say this is the binary option we routinely fail to make the right choice. > renaming master branches/HDDs to main because of rAciSm Sticking to OP‘s topic its just ridiculous to have such a discussion in Europe because we are supposedly to feel guilty about what other people did to African Americans. Lest for the majority of US slaves wel…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I’m honestly a bit shocked at the reactionary nature of this entire thread. I knew HN had a bunch of conservative and libertarian tech bros but…holy shit. This whole thread is unhinged. I am not from the US. I am not white. I am typically in the left (to what's considered left in the countries I lived in). And I really dislike all the political correctness that seeped into tech, and generally comes from the US. All…
To be clear, I’m only talking about the US. I don’t care what other countries do with their terminology. If they’re using “master/slave,” they’re already borrowing our terminology that came from an American. What’s so hard about borrowing again? What I do know is that my Black team member is offended by master/slave terminology. Maybe their grandparents had a grandparent who was enslaved, and they don’t want to be re…
This is what it ultimately comes down to. Unfortunately, a large segment of our population doesn't value basic respect and empathy, and we end up with this current (ridiculous) 100+ comment thread.
My buddy goes by a nickname because he was originally named after his abusive father and he'd rather not be reminded of the guy. I have two choices: 1. I could insist on calling him by his original name using excuses like "Well, that's technically your name" and "I have the free speech right to call you by that name" and "I think changing one's name is dumb" and "Why should I lift a finger" and "You can’t force me to..." and blah blah blah, or 2. I can simply respect his wishes and call him by his preferred nickname.
Option 2 doesn't cost me anything, causes zero drama, and makes everything better. It's a no-brainer. Yet vast swaths of America seem to stubbornly want to go with option 1, on this and many similar issues, resulting in unnecessary fighting, grief, drama, protests, counter-protests, pain, suffering... all because they lack empathy.