Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

efavdb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 173 posts

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#161

Post by barking_biscuit »

zozbot234 wrote: post #115
allenu wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In general, existing SRS does a very bad job of supporting priority and prerequisites between items. This is a feature I've wanted to implement for a while, but I think it would be hard from a user's perspective to set up the dependencies. Specifically, I mean marking a card unlearnable until another card (or cards) is learned. It's something that I think requires a good UI so you can see at a glance which cards de…

Where this feature would be especially useful too is idioms and collocations ("words best used together"), not just full sentences. It's something that's not often addressed in formal language learning but a big part of native fluency. And yes, it's a lot of data. Though it could be made manageable by e.g. importing it from external knowledge graphs/mindmaps and the like.

In my experience, the brain collects background statistics on collocations through exposure to native media. It's an aspect of language learning I'm not convinced SRS is suited to or really appropriate for.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#162

Post by examplary_cable »

I have read a lot of comments that appear to be a modification of "I used anki but the accumulation made me drop it".

If you're interested, I've worked in a Spaced Repetition Algorithm where they is no card accumulation, you review whenever you feel like. In order to maximize pleasure.

In the future I'll also configure it to give you subject you "feel" like reviewing at the moment, since pleasure is also associated with memory.

https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#163

Post by t_mann »

borroka wrote: post #156
t_mann wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In grad school it seems obvious what you want to retain, after that it can become a bit trickier to make the choice. General question for everyone using this approach: how do you go about selecting topics to put into your SR schedule? I mean there are so many things that would be good to remember: math problems and leetcode are actually continuously relevant if you're in employment and ever thinking about moving jobs…

The problem is quickly solved, and it is important not to fall into " paralysis by analysis." Sometimes, while writing a card, we tell ourselves that it is not so important to remember that information and discard it, other times we discard it when during the review process we sense or realize that we are not interested in remembering that information . Assuming that there is some sort of logic behind the decisions m…

Yeah, the whole thing is probably easy to overoptimize. Any recommendations wrt to the software? My preference for these sort of things are maximally compatible/portable solutions based on simplistic file formats (I keep a lot of personal tracking data in csv, eg). Here I'm thinking something along the lines of local markdown files for the cards, a database for the sampling info and a web app that does the sampling.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#164

Post by borroka »

t_mann wrote: post #163
borroka wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is quickly solved, and it is important not to fall into " paralysis by analysis." Sometimes, while writing a card, we tell ourselves that it is not so important to remember that information and discard it, other times we discard it when during the review process we sense or realize that we are not interested in remembering that information . Assuming that there is some sort of logic behind the decisions m…

Yeah, the whole thing is probably easy to overoptimize. Any recommendations wrt to the software? My preference for these sort of things are maximally compatible/portable solutions based on simplistic file formats (I keep a lot of personal tracking data in csv, eg). Here I'm thinking something along the lines of local markdown files for the cards, a database for the sampling info and a web app that does the sampling.

I use Anki in a "straightforward" way. In the sense that I write the card using Anki's interface without using excel or markdown files.

For example, if I want to memorize a word I found while reading, I highlight it in blue in Apple's books, it goes to readwise, then I take it from readwise by copying and pasting from Apple's dictionary the translation or definition.

I am for the simplest things possible, the point is to learn/memorize and not to find the best pipeline. You may think that the optimal pipeline leads to optimal learning, but (1) what kind of difference are we talking about compared to the simplest method of building cards?, (2) if setting up the pipeline means having the pipeline as the goal (as in ML the platform and not the predictions become the goal) or abandoning the study because the whole process becomes too cumbersome, is that something we should aspire to?

One of my favorite novelists, Arturo Pérez-Reverte, when asked what software he uses to write his novels, replied: "I only use Word, but it's true that I don't know any other [software]".

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#165

Post by borroka »

4BA9940C wrote: post #104
borroka wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting from a linguistic point of view, no doubt, and I am an amateur etymologist myself, but let's look at reality with honest eyes: apart from a very small group of people, languages are not learnt, and learnt effectively, starting from the etymology up. I know it is almuerzo, I use it 20 times, and it is "mine". I think we should try, and I include myself among those who have an approach to learning tha…

Etymology by itself is not going to be useful. As one more flashcard, another pillar, additional context, they will to deepen your understanding. It is creating more inter-connections between your neurons.

I think we should not confuse the process of hypothesis building with hypothesis testing.

>> As one more flashcard, another pillar, additional context, they will to deepen your understanding. It is creating more inter-connections between your neurons.

This is a hypothesis, identifying a mechanism that leads to an effect. But I don't see any tested hypothesis for either the mechanism or the effect. And we have millions of people who have mastered other languages as children and as adults who have no idea what etymology means.

I mean, it sounds reasonable, in theory. Like knowing the evolution of tactical formations in soccer would like one to become a better player. But it is common sense it has no effect whatsoever on soccer abilities.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#166

Post by t_mann »

borroka wrote: post #164
t_mann wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the whole thing is probably easy to overoptimize. Any recommendations wrt to the software? My preference for these sort of things are maximally compatible/portable solutions based on simplistic file formats (I keep a lot of personal tracking data in csv, eg). Here I'm thinking something along the lines of local markdown files for the cards, a database for the sampling info and a web app that does the sampling.

I use Anki in a "straightforward" way. In the sense that I write the card using Anki's interface without using excel or markdown files. For example, if I want to memorize a word I found while reading, I highlight it in blue in Apple's books, it goes to readwise, then I take it from readwise by copying and pasting from Apple's dictionary the translation or definition. I am for the simplest things possible, the point i…

Cheers. One last question, how well does Anki work for LaTex/equations, code blocks and image/video files?

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#167

Post by borroka »

t_mann wrote: post #166
borroka wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Anki in a "straightforward" way. In the sense that I write the card using Anki's interface without using excel or markdown files. For example, if I want to memorize a word I found while reading, I highlight it in blue in Apple's books, it goes to readwise, then I take it from readwise by copying and pasting from Apple's dictionary the translation or definition. I am for the simplest things possible, the point i…

Cheers. One last question, how well does Anki work for LaTex/equations, code blocks and image/video files?

I use equations and images, code blocks can be used, and I don't find useful applications for video files.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#168

Post by zinclozenge »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #133
zinclozenge wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but on the other hand the best researchers/engineers I know have a huge number of facts and examples memorized and ready at their fingertips The US is staunchly anti-memorization. It wasn't until I did a year abroad in a French university where the power of memorization was so obvious. One of the math students I spent time with told me it's the French tradition to "carry everything around in your head". They were s…

> The US is staunchly anti-memorization. I don't understand where this coming from. In my experience learning and teaching math in the US, I've found it's almost _entirely_ about memorization. Calculus students are usually able to regurgitate algorithms for differentiation/integration, but can't answer the most basic questions about what they're doing really means. This is just an aside. I'm not against memorization.…

This might be the case for k-12 and maybe lower level courses, but this was _definitely_ not the case for when I was taking group theory, real analysis, etc.

With that said, someone else in the comments mentioned that while it might seem there's an emphasis "regurgitation" it's mainly because going beyond that and really digging into the why of things is vastly out of scope for the class.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#169

Post by LittleFishyChan »

xkfm wrote: post #25
dls2016 wrote: post #17

I was anti-memorization until I went back to graduate school for mathematics. I had forgotten (or never learned) a lot of things needed to pass qualifying exams. At some point I ran across the spaced repetition idea (maybe from the Wired SuperMemo article [0]) and I gave it a try. I ended up using it to memorize large portions of baby Rudin and Munkres' Topology, as well as some algebra and a bunch of qualifying exam…

That Supermemo article in Wired hooked me. I still remember where I was when I read it and the feeling of reading it. I still use Supermemo daily, and it's one of the programs keeping on Windows. Anki (and every other SRS program I've tried) just doesn't compare as soon as you move beyond a list of flashcards. That said, having used Supermemo for over a decade at this point, the hardest thing about SRS is deciding wh…

Yo, I've been using SuperMemo for 16 years every single day (Did my cards this morning :), and you're spot on! I would love to chit chat about SM sometime, I've not met many people that use SRS for so long! Send me an e-mail at thesupermemoguy (at) gmail (dot) com

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#170

Post by bayesian_horse »

wodenokoto wrote: post #131
bayesian_horse wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion the memorization (with whatever method) gets you started. There is no good replacement, and in that phase any other learning activities really aren't as important. Only when memorization has laid the basic foundation does it make sense to spend more time to read and write in the new language. In my opinion reading is the most efficient activity at higher levels.

I disagree. Even at the early stages you should be reading simple sentences with words you just learned and you should be creating sentences with structures you just learned.

I didn't say you shouldn't read simple sentences or do other activities. Variety is useful.

I said early on the most efficient use of your time is memorization of words and maybe grammar. Duolingo does that well, in my opinion. It doesn't do the usual flashcard stuff, but it does favor repetition and you can practice speaking and listening from the first time.

Post reply on HN