Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

efavdb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 173 posts

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#71

Post by pessimizer »

ren_engineer wrote: post #63
dls2016 wrote: post #17

I was anti-memorization until I went back to graduate school for mathematics. I had forgotten (or never learned) a lot of things needed to pass qualifying exams. At some point I ran across the spaced repetition idea (maybe from the Wired SuperMemo article [0]) and I gave it a try. I ended up using it to memorize large portions of baby Rudin and Munkres' Topology, as well as some algebra and a bunch of qualifying exam…

I'd be really interested to see some research into integrating spaced repetition into our actual education system. Almost everything I see about it is adults learning, I wonder how much we could speed up primary school education considering so much of the "base" stuff needed to advance is rote memorization anyway seems like countries should be investing money in this, potentially trillions in unlocked economic potent…

Hundreds of millions of the world's kids were remote learning for up to a year and a half. If there was any opportunity to develop real tools to help with remote learning, it was then, but we ended up with nothing, and remote learning still sucks.

If anybody is going to integrate memory techniques into a curriculum, it'll probably be some Silicon Valley charter.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#72

Post by _dain_ »

borroka wrote: post #56
cehrlich wrote: post #50

I've been using Anki for language learning and it's a superpower. After just over two years I passed an exam that requires a passive vocabulary of about 10,000 words. Other people who grinded harder than me have managed it even faster, some in under a year. However one big mistake people make is to think an SRS helps you learn. That's not true. It helps you not forget things you've already learned. You still need som…

>> It helps you not forget things you've already learned. The argument is quite weak when we discuss learning words in a foreign language. You learn that lunch is "almuerzo" in Spanish, but is it learning or just memorization/association? To me the lines are blurred, even at first sight of the word. I used Anki myself to learn foreign languages and it is tremendously effective for words and short sentences too. I use…

>You learn that lunch is "almuerzo" in Spanish, but is it learning or just memorization/association? To me the lines are blurred, even at first sight of the word.

I think there's a difference. "Almuerzo" -> "al muerzo", I know "al" means "the", from Arabic, I look up the etymology, the "muerzo" is from Latin "morsus", from which we get "morsel" in English. Mnemonic: "the morsel". Then I can guess that the form of the verb is almorzar, which is indeed the case. Even learning a simple word embeds and thickens a web of associations in one's mind. SRS strengthens this, makes it scale better.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#73

Post by pessimizer »

snowpiercer wrote: post #29
dls2016 wrote: post #17

I was anti-memorization until I went back to graduate school for mathematics. I had forgotten (or never learned) a lot of things needed to pass qualifying exams. At some point I ran across the spaced repetition idea (maybe from the Wired SuperMemo article [0]) and I gave it a try. I ended up using it to memorize large portions of baby Rudin and Munkres' Topology, as well as some algebra and a bunch of qualifying exam…

Don't you think you actually did well in your exams because you really understood it and not because you blindly memorized it ?

I've really understood a lot of stuff that I've since completely forgotten. For example, if you don't speak your native language for 20 years, you'll be surprised how hard it is to find any of it when you need it.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#74

Post by _dain_ »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #27
vntok wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care if the upper bound is "effectively infinite," that's not what the proof claimed. Very interesting. Do you typically process all claims as literally as you just did for this one, notably when you're interacting with people outside of the Internet? In which case, do most people react positively to your behaviour, or do they get annoyed because "you know what I meant"?

Internet "well actually," culture made me this way. I preempt rebuttals I'm not interested in.

I don't think you're actually a real frog.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#76

Post by pessimizer »

_dain_ wrote: post #72
borroka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> It helps you not forget things you've already learned. The argument is quite weak when we discuss learning words in a foreign language. You learn that lunch is "almuerzo" in Spanish, but is it learning or just memorization/association? To me the lines are blurred, even at first sight of the word. I used Anki myself to learn foreign languages and it is tremendously effective for words and short sentences too. I use…

>You learn that lunch is "almuerzo" in Spanish, but is it learning or just memorization/association? To me the lines are blurred, even at first sight of the word. I think there's a difference. "Almuerzo" -> "al muerzo", I know "al" means "the", from Arabic, I look up the etymology, the "muerzo" is from Latin "morsus", from which we get "morsel" in English. Mnemonic: "the morsel". Then I can guess that the form of the…

There's a guy who did a book like this: http://yong321.freeshell.org/lsw/

preview: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Learning_Spanish_Words_...

It's just a bunch of vocabulary paired with etymology notes and observations/sounds-likes to make the vocabulary memorable.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#77

Post by ggm »

I frequently have arguments with competent mathematicians about the role of rote learning in arithmetic. I think when you move "beyond" arithmetic, you can also forget how important number recall is, in being able to manipulate numeric symbols fluently according to the rules of arithmetic.

Include base (hex, binary) and .. its getting worse.

Numeracy, numerical literacy and fluency, understanding both the symbol set, and its behaviour in rules of arithmetic, needs to be a given, to talk cogently about numbers.

Simply teaching all kids the 12x tables, and how to handle the arithmetic of change giving at a till from the specific units of coin and note available, how to run a total in their head, how to calculate % will be life skills which might literally save their job. And its foundation is recall, and rote learning.

Not everyone is heading to 3rd order differential analysis.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#78

Post by borroka »

_dain_ wrote: post #72
borroka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> It helps you not forget things you've already learned. The argument is quite weak when we discuss learning words in a foreign language. You learn that lunch is "almuerzo" in Spanish, but is it learning or just memorization/association? To me the lines are blurred, even at first sight of the word. I used Anki myself to learn foreign languages and it is tremendously effective for words and short sentences too. I use…

>You learn that lunch is "almuerzo" in Spanish, but is it learning or just memorization/association? To me the lines are blurred, even at first sight of the word. I think there's a difference. "Almuerzo" -> "al muerzo", I know "al" means "the", from Arabic, I look up the etymology, the "muerzo" is from Latin "morsus", from which we get "morsel" in English. Mnemonic: "the morsel". Then I can guess that the form of the…

It is interesting from a linguistic point of view, no doubt, and I am an amateur etymologist myself, but let's look at reality with honest eyes: apart from a very small group of people, languages are not learnt, and learnt effectively, starting from the etymology up. I know it is almuerzo, I use it 20 times, and it is "mine".

I think we should try, and I include myself among those who have an approach to learning that is at times too cerebral, to look at how things work more than how interesting would be if they worked in a particular way.

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#79

Post by _dain_ »

pessimizer wrote: post #76
_dain_ wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You learn that lunch is "almuerzo" in Spanish, but is it learning or just memorization/association? To me the lines are blurred, even at first sight of the word. I think there's a difference. "Almuerzo" -> "al muerzo", I know "al" means "the", from Arabic, I look up the etymology, the "muerzo" is from Latin "morsus", from which we get "morsel" in English. Mnemonic: "the morsel". Then I can guess that the form of the…

There's a guy who did a book like this: http://yong321.freeshell.org/lsw/ preview: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Learning_Spanish_Words_... It's just a bunch of vocabulary paired with etymology notes and observations/sounds-likes to make the vocabulary memorable.

Oooh, this looks lovely, thank you for showing me this.

EDIT, hm he seems to be missing some obvious cognates, e.g.

>propio, own (adj.); proper (cognate). Proper in modern English no longer has the meaning "own", but this word in Spanish, propio, still retains it. if this knowledge is too uninteresting, use a mnemonic such as "A truly proper lady behaves in her own natural style."

wtf? What about just the English word "property" instead of this silly lady business?

Re: Spaced repetition can allow for infinite recall

#80

Post by jan_Inkepa »

wizofaus wrote: post #67
jan_Inkepa wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://super-memo.com/ is the software that's being talked about.

Ah OK, though I'm still curious how there can also be an apparently unrelated online offering at supermemo.com. FWIW, from the very brief experience I've had so far I'm not super impressed, but I'll try sticking with it for at least the month of the free trial.

Ah, right I don't know the story. Anki has similar problems (a competing service with the same name because IIRC Anki didn't trademark its name).
Post reply on HN