Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck • Hacker News Board

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#161

Post by schmorptron » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

yesbut wrote: post #53

danvayn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like another said in this thread, yes you would but it's because some cheats are rootkits. It's a little invasive but doesn't seem as problematic as other ACS like Riot's Vanguard, which is always on and China-owned.

> China-owned State owned is problematic, I'm not in disagreement with you. But so is corporate owned. I'd like to see an industry standard anti-cheat root-kit developed as a publicly reviewable open source project at the very least.

Anti-Cheat is the only industry where security by obscurity is valid.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#162

Post by oehtXRwMkIs » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

VRay wrote: post #110

neoromantique wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, like that black mirror episode?

yeah, no shit You guys can just move to South Korea or China if you want to live with that authoritarian BS

China I understand, but what's up with pairing it with South Korea?

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#163

Post by schmorptron » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

doublerabbit wrote: post #15

I feel that if we can could work on introducing more online cross-play, the gaming community would be a better place. There should be no reason why I can't play online with Xbox and PlayStation players.

Lots and lots of games, and most new big ones coming out, have cross-play. Apex, CoD, Rocket League jus to name a few.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#164

Post by nitrogen » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

temporarrry0923 wrote: post #122

judge2020 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little skeptical that that's the case. When I cheated in CS:GO years ago (1856 days ago in 2016), I specifically remember being unable to see where people went at the beginning of the round, and sniping double-doors on dust2 showed people only when they were about to pass by the opening. This was on official competitive servers, so maybe you only mean self-hosted servers don't have FOW.

I mean, it has fog of war, yes. It's not as good or strict as it could be. I have seen discussions with the devs and they say that if it is more "strict" (ie hiding player positions until they are closer) would be more taxing on CSGO servers, AND would screw with high ping players (they would experience pop-in). Check out https://edan.gg/defender to see the comparison between CSGO and a better FoW system.

I'm not a CSGO player, but I assume you also have to be able to play e.g. footstep sounds for someone coming up around the corner, so you at least need to send the info that someone is nearby.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#165

Post by bqmjjx0kac » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #145

fletchowns wrote: post #89

I wish there was some well respected third party reputation service that I could prove my identity to (government id, utility statements, etc) and then all games just integrate with this third party reputation service. Sort of an Olympic committee for gaming. Give me the option to only play with other verified players. Getting caught cheating in one game then impacts your reputation in _all_ games. There's a gazillio…

You want to open up yourself to risk for your identity being stolen and normalize handing out personally identifiable information just to maybe make it harder for cheaters to get in on some of your games? I don't think the idea has merit. See how long it is taking the Real ID act to become enforced. People barely trust the government with this info, with the ability to get on a plane (among other things) at stake.

Thanks to the magic of cryptography, it's possible to prove your identity to someone else without enabling them to impersonate you.

For instance, the third party gives you a nonce, you sign it with your private key, and they verify it with your public key.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#166

Post by jakogut » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

legohead wrote: post #146

peanut_worm wrote: post #7

I could totally see Linux hitting 5+ percent market share for desktops on the next couple years

why would anyone other than programmers/devops/IT pros have anything to do with Linux?

It doesn't spy on you. It gives you freedom of choice when it comes to desktop environment, and what software you run. It's not developed by anti-competitive tech giants.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#167

Post by deepsun » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

cooljacob204 wrote: post #117

temporarrry0923 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

To be honest I have completely given up on competitive fps games. The cheating situation has only gotten worse and I really don't see anti-cheat makers winning.

Play with friends only, like in good-o-days.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#168

Post by nitrogen » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #130

Unklejoe wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unwinnable It seems winnable so far if you look at the Xbox One and later, at least. I'm not aware of anyone successfully modifying game code on those consoles. The downside is that it a requires a completely locked down system.

In the cases where end-to-end vendor control over the hardware from the player's fingers to the HDMI out exists, yes that seems possible. But on a PC? Where the user can install whatever software they like? Much harder. It feels like stopping aimbots will ultimately fail as eventually we'll see bots that use machine-vision to spot heads and pick them off. You wouldn't even need to run it on the cheating machine, this…

Someone else mentioned doing this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28634631

Even if they turn on HDCP, you could just get a low-lag monitor and point a camera at it.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#169

Post by babypuncher » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

xd wrote: post #96

Anyone remember PunkBuster? If anything took more out of the soul of gaming in them days I'd love to know what. It never managed to keep on top of "hackers" but some how managed to destroy the legitimate gamer communities - I got kicked so much I just gave up in the end playing publicly. Does anyone even bother anymore with online gaming without using hacks? I've never strayed far from private servers for over a deca…

Punkbuster was a nightmare and I still have flashbacks to botched updates ruining my Friday evenings in Quake 3 and Battlefield 2.

I've yet to personally encounter any issues with more modern solutions like EAC or BattleEye, though I know they've caused issues with some exotic device drivers like RGB controllers.

> Does anyone even bother anymore with online gaming without using hacks? I've never strayed far from private servers for over a decade now.

Don't listen to the haters, cheating isn't as widespread as people seem to think it is, as long as you stay out of APAC matchmaking servers. Smurf accounts are the bigger problem in the games I play regularly (Overwatch, Apex Legends).

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#170

Post by tester756 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

SXX wrote: post #113

Thaxll wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not as trivial as you think it is to get good results if you rely only on the server side, if it was the case everyone would do that. Server side cheat detection actually don't detect that much, like how do you known someone is wallhacking? As for manual review it just does no scale, when you see that CoD banned 100k cheaters, imagine if one person from activision would have to review every cases. Cloud…

Uh oh what would stop my ML-based auto-aim from cheating in FPS running on cloud? Cheats now might be fine with just video feed as input.

If that was 2015 or 2010 then I'd say: why would people competent in computer vision waste time on making 30$ cheats when they can use their skills at faang for probably 200k?

but nowadays idk whether it stands