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Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

dev.epicgames.com

71–80 of 327 posts

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know this? You've personally tried them? Or is this secondhand, thirdhand, hypothetical knowledge? It seems to me that anti-cheat works the same way DRM works: It poses a barrier to entry that keeps NN% of people who would hack from hacking, which is sufficient to keep the game from becoming a hacker cesspool.

As someone who runs an online Counterstrike platform, I can attest to this firsthand. There are literally dozens of open source cheats on Github that bypass the major anticheat services. And when one gets detected, they're usually updated in just a few days. For private paid cheats, they're very rarely detected. I've heard of people paying thousands of dollars for custom-built cheats that have gone years and years wi…

Does popflash.site have an AC? I didn't have a problem last time I tested it.

I think your server could check for several cvars that are only enabled for cheaters using some cheats, to auto-ban them. Though this precludes externals and some better internals.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#72
post #61

This is great and all, but I feel like all of these client side cheat detection tools are basically a waste of time. Trying to enforce the trustworthiness of the client is basically an unwinnable arms race between anti-cheat and the cheat makers. A better approach is for the server to treat all clients as hostile and untrustworthy and use a combination of heuristics and statistics to ferret out malicious client behav…

They’ve been doing interesting stuff but have completely failed to succeed with anything. VAC is a joke. VACnet continues to be a pipe dream.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#73
post #13

I could totally see Linux hitting 5+ percent market share for desktops on the next couple years

I think at this point I just need a Google Drive client. 1Password is already there, Obsidian is there, I'm ready to go

If you want client, not necessarily sync, GNOME has it built-in. It'll mount your Drive using FUSE.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure except EAC doesn't work, even on windows with the full kernel rootkit installed. Money back guarantee SaaS cheats are like $10/month that are undetected by EAC.

You know this? You've personally tried them? Or is this secondhand, thirdhand, hypothetical knowledge? It seems to me that anti-cheat works the same way DRM works: It poses a barrier to entry that keeps NN% of people who would hack from hacking, which is sufficient to keep the game from becoming a hacker cesspool.

I do know this, personally. EAC is not great. They sort of stay on top of things compared to something like CS but it's still possible to get away with it for a few months if you do it right

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#75
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know this? You've personally tried them? Or is this secondhand, thirdhand, hypothetical knowledge? It seems to me that anti-cheat works the same way DRM works: It poses a barrier to entry that keeps NN% of people who would hack from hacking, which is sufficient to keep the game from becoming a hacker cesspool.

As someone who runs an online Counterstrike platform, I can attest to this firsthand. There are literally dozens of open source cheats on Github that bypass the major anticheat services. And when one gets detected, they're usually updated in just a few days. For private paid cheats, they're very rarely detected. I've heard of people paying thousands of dollars for custom-built cheats that have gone years and years wi…

You're talking about VAC, which is not even close to the same tier as EAC, there are no "open source cheats" that bypass the major anticheat services because they are quickly identified and patched.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#76

I could totally see Linux hitting 5+ percent market share for desktops on the next couple years

I've been using it at work the last 6 months.

Only issue I've hit was Tableau Desktop has no Linux support (but hopefully we can migrate to Looker, as Tableau sucks anyway).

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those aren't even cheaters using a full DMA module and separate PC which is nearly impossible to detect if done properly.

Or worse machine-learning-to-bounding-box that takes the video stream through HDMI, identifies character heads, intercepts the USB HID mouse, and injects movement commands to move the center of the screen towards the nearest "head". Literally (not nearly) impossible to detect, there is no difference between this and just aiming by hand. The video is already out of the box, and the USB HID packets look the same as the…

Just out of curiosity, how does it fare with smokes?

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#78
post #61

This is great and all, but I feel like all of these client side cheat detection tools are basically a waste of time. Trying to enforce the trustworthiness of the client is basically an unwinnable arms race between anti-cheat and the cheat makers. A better approach is for the server to treat all clients as hostile and untrustworthy and use a combination of heuristics and statistics to ferret out malicious client behav…

VACnet hurts cheaters, and also probably 25% of legits as well. In low trust this can be verified pretty quickly. Even in the gutter of trust, redder than red, you still have about 50-60% of players cheating. That's nearly half of everyone in the WORST trust factor of the game, who are there while not cheating. Though some are probably griefers/mic-spammers/toxics, it's certainly not all of them.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#79
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who runs an online Counterstrike platform, I can attest to this firsthand. There are literally dozens of open source cheats on Github that bypass the major anticheat services. And when one gets detected, they're usually updated in just a few days. For private paid cheats, they're very rarely detected. I've heard of people paying thousands of dollars for custom-built cheats that have gone years and years wi…

Does popflash.site have an AC? I didn't have a problem last time I tested it. I think your server could check for several cvars that are only enabled for cheaters using some cheats, to auto-ban them. Though this precludes externals and some better internals.

Sorry, I edited my comment after you asked. We don't have an "anti-cheat" in the traditional sense, though I've developed a few solutions to curb cheating in the past. Fortunately, it's not really a problem I've had to solve because I only offer scrimmages these days, meaning you choose who you play with. If I were to offer matchmaking, I'd be more liable to prevent cheaters from using the platform since I would be matching up people to play with.

Since my users are mostly just playing friends I don't really have rampant cheater problems like other services.

Re: Epic launches anti-cheat support for Linux, Mac, and Steam Deck

#80
post #61

This is great and all, but I feel like all of these client side cheat detection tools are basically a waste of time. Trying to enforce the trustworthiness of the client is basically an unwinnable arms race between anti-cheat and the cheat makers. A better approach is for the server to treat all clients as hostile and untrustworthy and use a combination of heuristics and statistics to ferret out malicious client behav…

Because it's not as trivial as you think it is to get good results if you rely only on the server side, if it was the case everyone would do that.

Server side cheat detection actually don't detect that much, like how do you known someone is wallhacking?

As for manual review it just does no scale, when you see that CoD banned 100k cheaters, imagine if one person from activision would have to review every cases.

Cloud gaming is the solution against cheats.

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