Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown • Hacker News Board

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#161

Post by aeternum » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #49

josefresco wrote: post #30

"almost hitting pedestrian" It wasn't even close. Look at where the ped is at 12 seconds, compared to the car. It's because he stopped the turn, and straightened the vehicle that the pedestrian stopped and looked up with concern (at 13 seconds). Even if the pedestrian broke out into a full run, they wouldn't have been in any real danger. This sort of close interplay between pedestrians and cars is very common in citi…

I agree, but this is probably the worst behavior I've seen of the FSD software. It abruptly tried to do a right turn on a no-right intersection with no warning (map said it was supposed to go straight, it looked like it was going to do that right up to the last second). Putting aside the "almost hitting a pedestrian", this is really dangerous behavior for an autonomous vehicle.

It's not like the car is going rogue and just randomly making a right turn. It's trying to find the right side of the road in a rare intersection. A monorail in the middle of a city street is quite rare so this is an understandable failure-mode.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#162

Post by mumblemumble » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

joshribakoff wrote: post #70

I have FSD but not the beta. When cars cut across my lane autopilot will not react for a solid second or so, then proceeds to slam on the brakes after the car is clear. It does not instill confidence to say the least. From my POV it feels like someone put a debounce on the reaction to prevent phantom breaking, to the point the car doesn’t brake when it needs to.

I worry a little bit about things like this. If they were just using debouncing on a band-aid rather than dealing directly with the bad input that led to the phantom breaking, then that would seem to imply that the project is falling into the classic death march project trap. It turns out that the last 10% of the project is going to be 90% of the work. Meaning that the original schedule was off by an order of magnitude. But the business has made made huge promises that mean that the team is not at liberty to adjust the schedule accordingly. And so they're under ever increasing pressure to cut corners and pile on quick fixes.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#163

Post by Draiken » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

oefrha wrote: post #148

Draiken wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... 5 minutes on /r/IdiotsInCars and it's very easy for me to understand how even with bizarre bugs like this, it's better than people. People say "how could it happen?!" and get angry for a software bug - that can be fixed - and seem to accept how drunk drivers do this (and a lot worse) literally every single day. But since it's a human, that's fine! Edit: wording

Drunk drivers on the road are… “fine”? Not sure where you live.

Of course it's not fine in that sense.

What I mean is that you don't see a headline on news outlets or twitter hashtags trending for every drunk driver fatality or crash that happens. Which for me tells that collectively, we are fine with it. We accept it as ordinary, as crazy as it may be.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#164

Post by diebeforei485 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #117

Is there anywhere that says who issued the DMCA takedown? A lot of people are assuming it was Tesla, but I don't see any evidence of that.

This is not clear. I assume the original uploader of the video (the person who runs the Hyperchange YouTube channel).

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#165

Post by freeone3000 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

mwint wrote: post #112

rwcarlsen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying the tesla self driving capability is on par with humans driving at near their worst in a panic'd sort of circumstance. Great!

Right, nothing should ever be built unless it can be 100% correct immediately. I’m stunned that it hasn’t, so far as we know, actually hit anything yet. I’m not sure how, but clearly they’re doing something right between choosing drivers and writing software.

There were several high publicity collisions with a Tesla colliding into stationary objects -- a highway barricade [1], a blue truck [2], a parked police car[3], two instances of a parked ambulance[4]...

Teslas driving themselves hit objects all the time.

1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/tes... 2. Ibid 3. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/14/... 4. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/30/busi...

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#166

Post by sprafa » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

jorpal wrote: post #83

Basic game theory dictates that if automated driving is seen as too safe, pedestrians will feel comfortable walking anywhere, anytime. Dense downtowns will become completely gridlocked and unusable for cars. Which maybe isn’t a bad thing. But if you want cars in cities you need them to be perceived as dangerous. Yeah I was convinced by Gladwell.

You solve this face recognition and ticketing of offenders. The cars have cameras everywhere anyway

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#167

Post by diebeforei485 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

This was a private beta, to be clear.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#168

Post by spywaregorilla » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

darkmarmot wrote: post #154

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

I recently avoided a startup prospect because they were looking to build a car OS that wasn't hard real-time. The very idea that they're trying to develop such things that might intermittently pause to do some garbage collection is freaking terrifying.

That doesn't seem especially bad. The car could, for instance, predict whether or not it was safe to do garbage collection. Humans do the same when they decide to look away while driving.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#169

Post by silisili » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

darkmarmot wrote: post #154

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

I recently avoided a startup prospect because they were looking to build a car OS that wasn't hard real-time. The very idea that they're trying to develop such things that might intermittently pause to do some garbage collection is freaking terrifying.

To play devil's advocate...and because I'm just not that educated in the space, is this really a huge deal? If we're talking couple ms at a time delays, isn't that still vastly superior to what a human could achieve?

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#170

Post by modeless » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

literallyaduck wrote: post #6

Not familiar with how the autopilot works, but the guy is touch the wheel a lot, is it the car driving, both, or just manual control? If it is just the car, it looks like it was trying to turn and didn't consider the people in the crosswalk. Edit: thanks for the explanation.

The guy in the video is stress testing the system by repeatedly driving next to the pillars which he knows are handled poorly (previous versions of FSD would actually drive right into them). So he is being extra cautious with his hands on the wheel.