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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#161
post #70
post #9

Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? From what I know, the COVID-19 vaccine is only effective in reducing symptoms for those who get inoculated. Is it accurate to say this vaccine does not prevent infection or help develop an immunity? I just do not understand how vaccines work. Would love a (peer-reviewed) source or sources I could read to brush up. This is not a political o…

I'm no expert but I'll share what I've learned so far, YMMV. >Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? Here are the traditional vaccine types: https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types COVID-19 vaccines are all (to my knowledge) a new type called an 'mRNA vaccine' - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different... These are basically the same as the 'subunit' type of v…

There are a variety of COVID-19 vaccines either already approved or in the pipeline in various countries. Only some of them are mRNA vaccines, notably the one from Moderna. Others are based on older technology.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah he's been all over the place since day one. I don't really listen to the guy anymore.

All over the place, changing his position as he learns more, tomayto, tomato right?

Learn about what? Masks are effective against flu? We know that for a century.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That number has been thrown around for here immunity. But I don't think it answers the GP's question because * Herd immunity numbers assume no ongoing vaccination -- they more or less say, "If life went back to normal, would the virus slow down or speed up?" * Age-related mortality and age-related vaccination rates are important. If we vaccinate all of the people who are at serious risk, the danger is mostly gone. Th…

Imho you’re underestimating the impact of the disease in general. Disease is much more than who lives or dies, there’s also people who “survive”. A number of asymptomatic covid patients have severe lung damage. Vaccinating “at risk” people who might die doesn’t account for all the people who might live permanently disabled lives as a result of a covid infection. https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/01/14/asymptomatic-co…

Considering the source for that is a single trauma surgeon on Twitter, I'm going to wait until there's something formally published on the matter. We have no information on the condition of the patient with "covid lung", or even a comparison between asymptomatic patients vs patients put on ventilators. Not saying you're wrong, but that article seems sensationalized and quite honestly lacking in relevant information.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. My grandma tested positive on a Monday around a month ago and went into hospice the following Thursday night, when her oxygen dropped. She passed away the following Saturday morning. My girlfriend's grandma also passed from COVID a few weeks ago. When it rains it pours, eh? The whole thing is just horrible to deal with. Not having a chance to say goodbye or go through the grieving process together. It's ju…

Same here. My grandfather died early in the pandemic (May). He tested positive for a period of three weeks and then tested negative a few times. He started feeling better and we were hopeful, but the damage was too great and his heart failed a few weeks later. I really just can't put my feelings into words. He was in a physical rehab facility after surgery. When the pandemic hit, visitation was forbidden. Turns out m…

Thank you for sharing, really, but understand that I could also slip into blind hatred over what I see as the suffering you and your culture have caused (not least being caregivers so scared by the hyped-up risk to younger and healthier people that they abandoned patients?!) but that would not be useful. As the minority opinion I’m also more likely to get flagged or banned, and I do use that handicap as a crutch sometimes (thanks @dang).

Perhaps the best option would be for us to get drunk and rage about this for a few hours or days. I bet I could rant for a lot longer than you, and I bet I understand your position better than you understand mine. Perks of being in the counterculture, I guess.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. My grandma tested positive on a Monday around a month ago and went into hospice the following Thursday night, when her oxygen dropped. She passed away the following Saturday morning. My girlfriend's grandma also passed from COVID a few weeks ago. When it rains it pours, eh? The whole thing is just horrible to deal with. Not having a chance to say goodbye or go through the grieving process together. It's ju…

Same here. My grandfather died early in the pandemic (May). He tested positive for a period of three weeks and then tested negative a few times. He started feeling better and we were hopeful, but the damage was too great and his heart failed a few weeks later. I really just can't put my feelings into words. He was in a physical rehab facility after surgery. When the pandemic hit, visitation was forbidden. Turns out m…

I'm sorry for you and your family's loss.

I am at the same level of loss-shock as you, I suspect. My mom lives and my grandma lived on the Iron Range in Minnesota, so a very rural area, which seemed to help keep infections at bay for a while.

It's been incredibly hard for my mom, because my grandma was her best friend and her rock. The day she passed, I remember my mom saying "I never got a last hug", which was heart breaking. My mom has MS, so there was no possibility of her visiting her through that whole process.

It's been really hard. I want to see my mom and give her a hug. But I also don't trust the time in between getting the results of a negative test to feel confidant about visiting her.

Hopefully we'll all find some closure once we have a chance to grieve together, properly. There are many memorial/celebration services that have been postponed. I hope we can reach the day where we can hold them safely together.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#166
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on what he thinks the country is ready to hear He does have a track record of being dishonest about things. Part of the reason he drug his feet on masks was he was worried about shortages. It makes sense, but I really don't like the "I know what's best for you" paternalism.

Fauci was never dishonest. That was Trump trying to shift the blame to him. Watch the original clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=youtu.be He literally said that the reason he is advising against masks was because he was worried about shortages.

Fauci was pretty explicit about it in the linked interview:

> “When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Dr. Fauci said. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.”

I think it’s fair to characterize this as dishonesty, and to be less charitable about whether his past communications were in retrospect honest.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#167
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on what he thinks the country is ready to hear He does have a track record of being dishonest about things. Part of the reason he drug his feet on masks was he was worried about shortages. It makes sense, but I really don't like the "I know what's best for you" paternalism.

Fauci was never dishonest. That was Trump trying to shift the blame to him. Watch the original clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=youtu.be He literally said that the reason he is advising against masks was because he was worried about shortages.

The message was definitely lost along the way when US surgeon general tweeted that masks wasn't effective against covid.

At best, they are grossly incompetent at communicating with the public.

https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12447444277357813...

https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12440202923658158...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#168
post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Perhaps never. Unless we authorize vaxrangers in helicopters to hunt and inoculate the 30% of anti-vaxxers.

[deleted]

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#169

This is unabashedly great news. For those debating if it is a sterilizing vaccine, if it’s perfect, what it means, etc, I point you to the following chart from Moderna’s trial: https://www.zq1.de/~bernhard/images/share/mRNA-1273-trial.pn... I think this pretty much says it all.

What is the Y axis, and how was it measured? It's not clear from the legend on the image.

Percent of subjects with a confirmed case.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#170
One thought: do we need herd immunity at all? Wait, hold off pushing the downvote button.

Why is this virus a problem? Not strictly because of deaths, although one would want to avoid unnecessary ones. It's due to the pressure on the healthcare system, because many people end up hospitalized, even though most of them recover (more on long COVID at the end of the post).

The vast majority of people ending up in hospitals are also belonging in the "at risk" population. To relieve pressure on the healthcare system, these must be vaccinated (along with healthcare workers). But once the most vulnerable and the most at risk of hospitalization are vaccinated, the pressure on the healthcare system should lower or cease for the most part (and the early data from Israel seem to indicate just that).

Of course, vaccination should continue (for those who want to get vaccinated), but with the risk of overwhelming hospitals gone completely, it would not be a problem. So society should reopen. And yes, in this case the virus will become endemic (it almost is already, save for a handful of places).

What about the others? Aside those who vaccinate, those recovered who did not have serious complications can go on like normal, like everyone else. According to data from Qatar[1] the risk of reinfection is low, and, most importantly, the vast majority of reinfections are asymptomatic (and asymptomatic people spread much less than symptomatic people, FTR[2]). In the context of the virus mutating towards (in the timespan of years, rather than months) completely escaping immunity, it is much better to rely on a combination of vaccination and natural immunity, so that subsequent, possible reinfections are not severe. That would also give time to adjust the vaccines if need be.

Unfortunately even throwing natural immunity along with vaccination is now a taboo topic, given how politicized the debate has become.

"What about long COVID?" some people may say. Well, the problem with long COVID is that, while it certainly exists, it is poorly characterized. Most studies lack a baseline before infection (or rely on self-reporting), so it is hard to determine what and for how long happens after an infection. Lastly, "regular" pneumonia can actually wreck someone for months or even a year, and some of these issues we're seeing may due to that: we're just seeing them at an increased rate because more people are experiencing that.

[1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.15.21249731v...

[2] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

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