Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#161

Post by elicash » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

SpookyBits wrote: post #159

Everytime Tesla is mentioned here the deluge of hate is overwhelming. I genuinely don't understand it. Here comes a company that is actually doing something fundamentally transformative and good for the planet and its inhabitants instead just another in the countless line of garbage apps that at best are a solution looking for a problem and at worst actively contributing to the destruction of our species (Facebook).…

>> Separate the man from the accomplishments.

I think this is mostly good advice. However, the company does intentionally market him as the face of the company -- so it's hard to fault people for disliking the company due to the press he intentionally gets on the company's behalf. His twitter account antics are marketing, too. It's all part of the brand, for better or worse.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#162

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #112

sandworm101 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I drove a rental car I left the airport driving with only one figure on a burning hot steering wheel. There was no switch. It took me pulling over at a rest stop to break out the PAPER manual to learn how to disable to fire, which was a good thing because by that point my backside was also starting to cook. I'd call that a significant design flaw.

Tesla or something else? Every car I've seen with heated seats (admittedly small sample size) had a hardware button with amber indicator LEDs showing you what setting it's on, so I'd certainly agree with not having an obvious switch being problematic. Made even worse by apparently turning it on by default? Moving everything into hidden modal screens of the infotainment system is not a trend I'm excited about.

Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#163

Post by gnopgnip » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 9:57 PM UTC

codazoda wrote: post #64

darth_avocado wrote: post #47

This survey is garbage. Survey design is an art. And unfortunately, this survey does not differentiate between a big problem like "brakes are shot" and a small one like "My spotify playlist doesn't show up like I want". Dig a bit deeper, for Tesla, > Infotainment is the source of more than a quarter of all problems Another thing to point out is that J.D. Power’s IQS does not differentiate between a problem that is th…

It's also useless in time frame. This is over the first few months of ownership. I've owned two of the cars that rank near the top of this list and it's problems after 5 years that I care about. That's when you start to pay out of pocket and the problems get big. Most cars, now, don't survive ten years, but I want a car that's reliable from year 5 to year 10.

The average age of cars on the road in the US is 11.8 years. So most cars survive well past 10 years.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#164

Post by crooked-v » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #157

aidenn0 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda's screen is a touch-screen at least up to 2019; you can use the knob as well (and I exclusively use the knob because finger-prints make the screen unreadable when the sun is behind you).

Looks like they started dropping touchscreens in 2019: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-pur...

Also, along with dropping the touchscreens, they've gone on a hard bent towards keeping the "driving only" information on physically separate displays from the "infotainment" part. Pure vehicle operation stuff is always straight ahead for the driver, while navigation and music is always on a separate screen a little to the right.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#165

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 10:00 PM UTC

woofie11 wrote: post #134

FireBeyond wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for several other manufacturers, the infotainment system is also the single largest source of problems, not "faulty brakes" or similar, so it's not like Tesla is being singled out here. > design issue in which everything works as intended but the learning curve might be too steep. It could be entirely argued that a design with a too steep learning curve, _especially when intended to be used in a moving vehicle_ i…

I think one of the questions is gizmo factor. My car doesn't have an infotainment system, so I can't have problems with it. A premium car with premium luxuries like bluetooth, air conditioning, GPS, self-driving, power windows, heads-up display, that button that open doors on minivans, airbags, and the like will have a lot more failures than a 1950-era Ford F150 truck. Does that make it a worse car? A better car? Or…

> A premium car with premium luxuries like bluetooth, air conditioning, GPS, self-driving, power windows, heads-up display, that button that open doors on minivans, airbags

Of your list, the only thing I'd consider a premium luxury today is a heads-up display (and self-driving, though I'm heavily cynical on the _current state_ of self-driving).

Tesla isn't being compared against 1950s era trucks, it's being compared against 2020 models. Of your list, I'd not consider any of those other items gizmos. I mean, airbags? AC?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#166

Post by fataliss » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

SpookyBits wrote: post #159

Everytime Tesla is mentioned here the deluge of hate is overwhelming. I genuinely don't understand it. Here comes a company that is actually doing something fundamentally transformative and good for the planet and its inhabitants instead just another in the countless line of garbage apps that at best are a solution looking for a problem and at worst actively contributing to the destruction of our species (Facebook).…

I will not argue that Tesla is doing things differently. I have one gripe with the absolute truth suggested by "good for the planet and its inhabitants" that so many EV manufacturers ride on. Are electric cars good for the planet? Nope. Are they less bad than gas cars? Maybe. It's like saying that Diet coke is good for you because it replaces normal coke that is bad for you. That's an erroneous and arguably dangerous dichotomy. Sorry if I'm being facetious but that kind of marketing bothers me and I believe is damaging (to the environment in this case) by making us more inclined to settle for non optimal solutions.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#167

Post by dan_quixote » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

screye wrote: post #98

devy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So technically this is a pay-for-play kind of shenanigans?

Yes and No. What JD power does is make a massive number of categories to give awards in. They then choose metrics for the survey that prioritize certain traits of the vehicle. The surveys themselves are conducted in a fair manner and awarded companies truly deserve those awards. But, in some sense, them winning it was a foregone conclusion the second the metrics were selected. It is like conducting a strongest man co…

> What JD power does is make a massive number of categories to give awards in.

This is common joke between friends. "Best in class HD towing" is something you used to hear on Chevy Silverado commercials when they, in fact, had lower tow ratings than F150 or Ram at the time. "HD towing" seemed to be a category that included Silverados only?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#168

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

elicash wrote: post #161

SpookyBits wrote: post #159

Everytime Tesla is mentioned here the deluge of hate is overwhelming. I genuinely don't understand it. Here comes a company that is actually doing something fundamentally transformative and good for the planet and its inhabitants instead just another in the countless line of garbage apps that at best are a solution looking for a problem and at worst actively contributing to the destruction of our species (Facebook).…

>> Separate the man from the accomplishments. I think this is mostly good advice. However, the company does intentionally market him as the face of the company -- so it's hard to fault people for disliking the company due to the press he intentionally gets on the company's behalf. His twitter account antics are marketing, too. It's all part of the brand, for better or worse.

Precisely. Tesla has said in SEC filings that @elonmusk is considered an official channel for company information.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#169

Post by bitexploder » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

gburdell3 wrote: post #158

chongli wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that people are more likely to get into a collision if they're messing around with an infotainment system when they should be keeping their eyes on the road. A simple radio+CD player with physical buttons for everything is easy to operate without distracting the driver.

Don't own a Tesla, but from what I understand most things can be controlled from the steering wheel controls.

It’s true. There are some common controls that are not as easy to access as you would like, but the common stuff is physically interfaced. I do think they took the design principle of avoiding physical controls a little too far, but in general it is the most fun and interesting car we have owned. Anecdotally, it is different enough that my 65 year old mother in law doesn’t drive it because she is not comfortable with it.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#170

Post by p_j_w » Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

eruci wrote: post #138

I own a model 3. It is a great car, far ahead of the competition. I've had more issues with it than i did with my previous car (honda accord). Eg, blackscreen - many times, and once an unintended acceleration.

Great car with unintended acceleration?