Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

driving.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 231 posts

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#131

Post by spideymans »

rsync wrote: post #90
slg wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has the most complex infotainment system in the industry. More complex software generally has more issues and complaints. People are going to have more issues and encounter more problems when using Microsoft Word versus Notepad. Word would therefore perform worse in a survey like this. That doesn't mean Notepad is a better piece of software or that Word users would want to switch to Notepad given the option. So…

"Tesla has the most complex infotainment system in the industry." ... which is a major design flaw.

Tesla's fallen into the trap of thinking that minimalism is the same as simplicity, elegance and ease of use.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#132

Post by kbuchanan »

darth_avocado wrote: post #47

This survey is garbage. Survey design is an art. And unfortunately, this survey does not differentiate between a big problem like "brakes are shot" and a small one like "My spotify playlist doesn't show up like I want". Dig a bit deeper, for Tesla, > Infotainment is the source of more than a quarter of all problems Another thing to point out is that J.D. Power’s IQS does not differentiate between a problem that is th…

And notice that all the "worst performers" are luxury brands. Is this not simply a matter of those who spend a lot also expect a lot?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#133

Post by kbenson »

brookside wrote: post #97
kbenson wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not useless, it's just targeted at a specific audience. Some people only keep cars for 5 years and then get a new car. I buy used cars about 3 years old and keep them for 5-6 years, so reliability ratings over later years is more important for me (which is why I generally buy Honda or Toyota for my minivan/car needs), but it might not be for those people. Consumer reports has traditionally been good about showin…

Consumer Reports relies on elective responses to their reliability survey. Doesn't this make their rankings problematic and statistically invalid?

As opposed to what? JD Powers seems to do the same. If you have a better survey with more rigorous standards that actually has enough data to by useful and comparable across many cars and years, I'm all ears.

Here's what both Consumer Reports[1] and JD Powers say about how they collect their data.

1: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/buying-selling/consumer-repor...

2: https://www.jdpower.com/faq

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#134

Post by woofie11 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #70
darth_avocado wrote: post #47

This survey is garbage. Survey design is an art. And unfortunately, this survey does not differentiate between a big problem like "brakes are shot" and a small one like "My spotify playlist doesn't show up like I want". Dig a bit deeper, for Tesla, > Infotainment is the source of more than a quarter of all problems Another thing to point out is that J.D. Power’s IQS does not differentiate between a problem that is th…

And for several other manufacturers, the infotainment system is also the single largest source of problems, not "faulty brakes" or similar, so it's not like Tesla is being singled out here. > design issue in which everything works as intended but the learning curve might be too steep. It could be entirely argued that a design with a too steep learning curve, _especially when intended to be used in a moving vehicle_ i…

I think one of the questions is gizmo factor. My car doesn't have an infotainment system, so I can't have problems with it.

A premium car with premium luxuries like bluetooth, air conditioning, GPS, self-driving, power windows, heads-up display, that button that open doors on minivans, airbags, and the like will have a lot more failures than a 1950-era Ford F150 truck. Does that make it a worse car? A better car? Or a bad survey?

Tesla has a lot of gizmos. Luxury cars have more gizmos than my car. I think the survey reflects that more than anything else.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#135

Post by enachb »

tidwall wrote: post #116

I traded in my Tesla Model S last December due to its degrading reliability. I ran into numerous issues towards the end such as: - The touchscreen bubbling and tearing away due to "delamination". - Door handles "not presenting". - The radiator breaking and dumping all its fluid on the garage floor. - The fast wall charger overheating. It got so hot I often needed to use my shirt as a buffer between my hand and charge…

Same anecdotal evidence on my end (S85). Despite the fact that it's technology (less moving parts) could make it the most reliable car, it ended up being the least reliable. Usually one service appointment fixed 3 things and broke 2 other things in the process. Wait time for an appointment was 3 weeks. I was done after 3 years and 40k Miles. Life is too short.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#136

Post by TylerE »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #77
TekMol wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Retroactive co-founder" - I wonder if that approach would work in other areas too. Like, how much would it cost to buy the status of an "Original member of the Beatles"?

Ask Ringo? Like, Pete Best was replaced by Ringo b/c George Martin thought he wasn’t good enough in the initial recording sessions with the band. Pete Best can claim to be an early member but that doesn’t take away from the fact that Ringo was there from the beginning. The analogy works pretty well with Musk here. Now, if you’re talking a Destiny’s Child situation where two of the early members were replaced in music…

> but that doesn’t take away from the fact that Ringo was there from the beginning

That's a rather curious bit of revisionist history. They played hundreds of live shows and made several released recordings before they hired Ringo - and that's not even counting the Quarrymen/Johnny and the Moondogs days which represent another 2 years before that.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#137

Post by kenhwang »

kbuchanan wrote: post #132
darth_avocado wrote: post #47

This survey is garbage. Survey design is an art. And unfortunately, this survey does not differentiate between a big problem like "brakes are shot" and a small one like "My spotify playlist doesn't show up like I want". Dig a bit deeper, for Tesla, > Infotainment is the source of more than a quarter of all problems Another thing to point out is that J.D. Power’s IQS does not differentiate between a problem that is th…

And notice that all the "worst performers" are luxury brands. Is this not simply a matter of those who spend a lot also expect a lot?

Could also be attributed to more cutting edge and complicated features expanding the surface area for more issues.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#139

Post by kenhwang »

screye wrote: post #98
devy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So technically this is a pay-for-play kind of shenanigans?

Yes and No. What JD power does is make a massive number of categories to give awards in. They then choose metrics for the survey that prioritize certain traits of the vehicle. The surveys themselves are conducted in a fair manner and awarded companies truly deserve those awards. But, in some sense, them winning it was a foregone conclusion the second the metrics were selected. It is like conducting a strongest man co…

Yep. If you create enough awards, everyone's a winner. My understanding is that the data itself and the surveying services they offer is actually rather good, and many automakers actually pay for the raw data and that service.

It's the marketing/awards side that's quite literally garbage. And certain automakers will pay for this as well.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#140

Post by b112 »

davedx wrote: post #118
wlesieutre wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though when you stuff everything except the engine and brakes into the infotainment system, it does put you in a worse spot when your infotainment system locks up. How many other cars do you need to learn a button combination on the steering wheel to reboot the infotainment screen when it crashes while driving, and then while it reboots your turn signals stop making sounds and you don't have a speedometer?

Yep. As a new Model 3 owner, this is definitely an issue and a huge drawback of them not having a smaller dashboard screen for critical functionality like the speedo. The "black screen" issue is very real and affects lots of people. I've already experienced it twice within the first month of driving, if it happens a few more times it's off to the service centre with it. All in all I'm extremely happy with the car, it…

I still don't get night driving + rural.

In the city, there is a lot of light. It's not really ever truly dark. In rural areas, on a dark night, especially with no moon, your eyes can adjust to the darkness...

I tend to turn all light off inside my car when driving rural at night.

That won't work though, if you have a massive, huge LCD with backlight constantly throwing white light at your eyes. Worse is if it 'shuts off', then you do something (change radio channel/interact) and blinding light smashes into your eyes.

An OLED would help. A 'red only' theme would be even better. Smaller displays better beyond that.

I get that Tesla rethought auto design. That's cool. But it seems like it only rethought from a very urban, perfect-eyesight, 20 something perspective.

Post reply on HN