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Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

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Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#151

Post by belorn »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #49
Etheryte wrote: post #26

There's already a number of comments trying to spin this in one racially loaded way or another discrimination loaded way or such. Please stop. I'll try to explain why your take is misguided with a parable which you can no doubt poke countless holes into. Say you've lived in one place your whole life. You have a neighbour, and they've lived their whole life there as well. One day your neighbour comes to you and asks f…

No, this looks at Europeans with Rose tinted glasses. I think there is innate tribalism in all of us. We can all rationally fight it and we rationally know what is morally the right thing to do. But it is in our core psychology to look for similarities/differences and identify as close/distance to other people. The Ukrainian government has also made an amazing job at galvanizing EU social media around this. The messa…

In the speeches and statements I have seen, there are a few differences. When addressing the European leaders, the Ukrainian leader speaks English without an interpreter. In addition there aren't any non-christian religious symbols in the image or speech, and when it comes to cultural symbols it is almost exclusively in terms of European union.

I have read/listen to a bit of research when it comes to diplomacy and tensions between nations, and a common theme is that its the small things that tend to have a large impact on kinship, trust and cooperation.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#152

Post by jbirer »

Etheryte wrote: post #26

There's already a number of comments trying to spin this in one racially loaded way or another discrimination loaded way or such. Please stop. I'll try to explain why your take is misguided with a parable which you can no doubt poke countless holes into. Say you've lived in one place your whole life. You have a neighbour, and they've lived their whole life there as well. One day your neighbour comes to you and asks f…

People are addicted to drama and toxicity. Ignore them

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#153

Post by older »

throwaway290 wrote: post #113
older wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any examples of someone being imprisoned for this? Or you're just making assumptions? So far all I see is that everyone detained for participation in anti-war protests in Russia were released after questioning and being issued warning.

The existence of the law is not an assumption.

I'm following OVD-info reports: https://reports.ovdinfo.org/no-to-war-en#1 Do you consider it a reputable source? Nothing like you're describing has happened so far.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#154

Post by [deleted] »

eldaisfish wrote: post #139
koonsolo wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- law above religion - equality - democracy - Separation of powers ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers ) - ... See for official EU value: https://ec.europa.eu/component-library/eu/about/eu-values/

are you confident in claiming that many areas of Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania etc share in all of these values? The crux of the problem here is that people are searching for reasons to justify actions that are rooted in racism. That is how you end up with vague discussions about feelings, incompatible cultures, "values" and so on.

[deleted]

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#155

Post by older »

yreg wrote: post #121
older wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jailed for 15 years, really? It is more like being fined $200: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/marina-ovsyann...

$200 for the social media post, she is yet to stand trial for the tv act. Listen to this and then rethink whether the russian activists feel safe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN1EkA14y6Q

Millions of Ukrainians weren't feeling safe since at least 2014. But it doesn't give grounds for asking for asylum. So to be "afraid to participate in protests because of fear of persecution" is not enough to claim refugee status.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#156

Post by ir123 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #149
eldaisfish wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of context missing here. Russia does as well as Ukraine in STEM fields and that is because of the Soviet Union making education cheap and accessible, not anything Ukraine specifically did. Are you sure that Ukrainians are the same ethnicity? Are you sure that Ukrainians share the same values about religion and human rights as western europe? >usually comes from importing people from countries with a lon…

Yeah, Ukraine has the same issue every other post-Soviet country has, even the EU ones, like corruption and poverty. But after the 2014 revolution the people of Ukraine proved that they prefer western values more than being Putin's puppet state.

What are western values?

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#157

Post by tuukkah »

krageon wrote: post #130
tuukkah wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be legal to not accept job applications from Ukrainian refugees? That is, if they have the right to work in Norway, how's the discrimination acceptable?

You might have linguistic requirements, which while discriminatory are also completely understandable.

Sure, you can have linguistic requirements ("You must speak Norwegian like a native") or affordances ("We're setting up a team of Ukrainian speakers"), but perhaps it would be fairer to market these jobs as "suitable for Ukrainian speakers" rather than "you must / must not be a Ukrainian refugee".

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#158

Post by slaw »

rich_sasha wrote: post #144
krageon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> context is very important as it wasn't unprovoked No matter how provoked ethnic cleansing is never a good response.

Indeed. My point, the Polish side had applied genocide in the past, and bloody discriminatory policies not much earlier. Plus, it was in Nazi-occupied, well, present-day Western Ukraine, and the Nazis were supportive of this. It's non-obvious how to judge this kind of events.

Your link says it was German-occupied not Nazi-occupied.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#159

Post by throwaway3b03 »

scotty79 wrote: post #57
older wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know which ones of those Russians oppose Putin? Just by asking and trusting that they are being honest? Those opposing Putin are a small minority, most of them are supporting the war even those in academia. Check these ratings: https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/ Also, they are not risking much by being in opposition. That girl who protested couple of days ago during live broadcast on Russian TV got fined $2…

I think in Russians living abroad majority might oppose Putin or at least want nothing to do with him. I imagine hating Putin and the country he created might be one of the more common reasons of living abroad.

I have Russian work colleagues in a western European country. While they don't support Putin (at least not overtly) and don't like the level of power he has acquired, they seem to have an ingrained distrust of the "west", even though the "west" gave them permanent residence, social security, a means of living. They somehow still believe Putin's propaganda, claiming that they're not sure if bioweapons or labs really were found in Ukraine, or generally not trusting western news sources, while somehow still believing Russian ones.

So in my experience, a majority of Russians, even those living abroad, really are Putin's puppets.

Re: Norwegian developer job board for Ukrainian refugees

#160

Post by agapon »

slaw wrote: post #158
rich_sasha wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. My point, the Polish side had applied genocide in the past, and bloody discriminatory policies not much earlier. Plus, it was in Nazi-occupied, well, present-day Western Ukraine, and the Nazis were supportive of this. It's non-obvious how to judge this kind of events.

Your link says it was German-occupied not Nazi-occupied.

What are you trying to say?
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