Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown • Hacker News Board

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#151

Post by epistasis » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

taneq wrote: post #77

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

On the one hand I applaud Tesla for being so open about what their system is thinking with their visualisations. That could be interpreted to show a deep belief in their system's capabilities. On the other hand, it's always terrified me how jittery any version of AutoPilot's perception of the world is. Would you let your car be driven by someone with zero object permanence, 10/20 vision and only a vague idea of the e…

The extremely poor performance of the visualizations are disturbing to me. It's also completely wasted space on the display that I wish were devoted to driving directions instead of telling me what I can already see outside of the car.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#152

Post by belter » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

GaylordTuring wrote: post #130

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

> I am astounded that software capable of these outputs is allowed on the roads. Me too. However, in my encounter with software like this, it usually runs on meat brains.

I know ...its hard to believe... "They're Made Out of Meat"

https://youtu.be/7tScAyNaRdQ

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#153

Post by notJim » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

> I am astounded that software capable of these outputs is allowed on the roads.

Well, great news for you then! Elon Musk just announced they're adding a button to allow a lot more people to get access to this beta software. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1438751064765906945

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#154

Post by darkmarmot » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #142

ChrisKnott wrote: post #63

Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11. The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn. Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have j…

I've made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an i…

I recently avoided a startup prospect because they were looking to build a car OS that wasn't hard real-time. The very idea that they're trying to develop such things that might intermittently pause to do some garbage collection is freaking terrifying.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#155

Post by antattack » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

staticassertion wrote: post #54

josefresco wrote: post #30

"almost hitting pedestrian" It wasn't even close. Look at where the ped is at 12 seconds, compared to the car. It's because he stopped the turn, and straightened the vehicle that the pedestrian stopped and looked up with concern (at 13 seconds). Even if the pedestrian broke out into a full run, they wouldn't have been in any real danger. This sort of close interplay between pedestrians and cars is very common in citi…

The car veers pretty aggressively and suddenly. "Almost hitting" or not, this looks dangerous. > This sort of close interplay between pedestrians and cars is very common in cities. Yeah and I'm usually yelling at the idiot that wasn't looking where they were driving.

In this case pedestrians waved back to the driver who apologized as they were far away. If they were closer car would have probably stopped as AP stops and slows down near pedestrians.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#156

Post by crote » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #131

Maybe it's just me, but it seems the car wanted to make a right turn on the right part of that side street. There are no pedestrians there. It's actually the interference of the driver that stops the turn halfway, and steers towards the people at the left starting to cross that street. I wonder what would have happened when the driver didn't interfere. I guess that the right turn would have been completed without any…

I neither see nor hear any indication of a turn signal, so I do not think it is actually trying to make a right turn.

Besides, the pedestrians were already on the road when the car initiated the turn. Note the "one way" sign: that street only has a single lane, and that lane was already occupied. It should definitely have yielded.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#157

Post by roywiggins » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

Draiken wrote: post #143

oefrha wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the admittedly not much footage of Tesla FSD (1-2 hours total maybe) I’ve watched, it seems to be roughly on par with a student driver who occasionally panics for no apparent reason.

I mean... 5 minutes on /r/IdiotsInCars and it's very easy for me to understand how even with bizarre bugs like this, it's better than people. People say "how could it happen?!" and get angry for a software bug - that can be fixed - and seem to accept how drunk drivers do this (and a lot worse) literally every single day. But since it's a human, that's fine! Edit: wording

There are pretty stringent laws against drunk driving in most places... if Tesla's "self driving" modes are that bad then they should be equally illegal

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#158

Post by modeless » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #97

mzs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not see a no right turn sign. ed: modeless 1 hour ago >That sign applies only to the lanes to the left of the pillars. It is legal to turn right there from the right lane. I've done it myself. Yes, it is confusing.

Look again. It is on one of the pillars in the median, shortly before the turn.

That sign applies only to the lanes to the left of the pillars. It is legal to turn right there from the right lane. I've done it myself. Yes, it is confusing.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#159

Post by cronix » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

I think the whole dream/goal of building a self driving car on top of a system completely designed for manual human interpretation and input is asinine, and that's before you even consider the complexity of adding other humans manually driving or suddenly walking in front of your car from a blind spot. Instead of building a digital system from the ground up, we are forcing manufacturers to come up with tech to read speed signs meant for human eyes and accurately interpret them under a myriad of conditions. What if it's covered in mud, or snow? Wouldn't coming up with national/international standards and a digital system work better for digital cars, like broadcasting speed limits instead of only relying on interpreting visual inputs, etc? Or standardizing the charging interface so you don't end up in a mac-like dongle hell and can just know no matter what car charging station you pull up to it will just work, like gas stations and standardized fueling systems work for all brand of ICE vehicles? I can go to any branded gas station and there isn't a station specific for just Ford cars. It just seems like a mish mash system of cludges hobbled together instead of a solid, well thought out system from the ground up. Due to that, we are making it 10x harder (and more dangerous) than it really needs to be. It's like saying you have to build all modern OS's on top of DOS made for 8 bit cpu's.

Re: Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown

#160

Post by devb » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

aquadrop wrote: post #61

stagger87 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes more sense when you realize the car wasn't even supposed to be turning. Look at the nav screen. If this guy didn't take over, where exactly was the car going? I think it's very easy to speculate it wouldn't have ended well.

Yes, it's weird that car decided to turn right. But I don't agree that's it's easy to speculate that it would hit the pedestrians, they were pretty far. I would think some emergency braking would take over or something. We have many thousands of tesla cars out there, lots of people are making videos about autopilot, but I don't think we have an example of a car actually hitting a pedestrian?

Two seconds of googling:

Here's one: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-pro...

Here's another: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/business/tesla-autopilot-...

Oh, another one: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lanceeliot/2020/05/16/lawsuit-a...

This appears to be the first one, in 2018: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/19/uber-self...

I'd keep going but maybe you get the point.