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Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

sifted.eu

151–160 of 174 posts

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you're basically describing why protectionism exists. Of course cheaper labor will displace more expensive labor, but that is quite literally why these jobs exist. Pay alone is not the reason the UK has a driver shortage, it's also the entire lifestyle that comes with it. The EU works on the idea that you can work anywhere (with some restrictions) not too different from how this works in different US states. O…

Protectionism vs open markets, nothing needs to be black and white. You are just re-iterating the tiresome mantra of the EU beneficiaries 'in the end it will all work out for you too'. Except, maybe not in your lifetime. It is a fundamental neo liberal viewpoint, and I admit in my opinion Labor (parties) have abandonded their constituency since the mid-80s. And I think that needs to change, and if it takes a bit of p…

If you think that in our lifetimes we won't see an increase of quality of live in eastern Europe then I have some bad news for your about your expectations to see benefits from protectionism.

Brexit did not make people in the UK happier, quite the opposite. I don't see a future where this will change.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#152

Sad but true. I think the most fundamental change of Brexit is the overwhelming "you're not welcome" message. Visas, papers, bureaucrats, people can deal with. But the idea that you're at best tolerated so long as you pay your taxes is really off-putting (even for me, now UK citizen and long-time resident). Also, all these schemes forget that moving for a job is so much more than that - it is moving a life. Can you m…

> My impression is that another upside Silicon Valley has over the UK is that the US is genuinely a country of immigrants. Whatever hoops you have to jump through to get in or stay, I don't get the impression people are looked down on because they are foreign, once actually on the ground. Which is not so much the case in Brexitania. The UK is easily among the most tolerant and least racist of European countries. In i…

I'm someone who has lived both in UK and now in the US.

UK has a huge issue with racism that people don't even want to acknowledge. The prejudice, micro aggressions, general nastiness from people is extremely off-putting in UK.

In the US nearly every city with over 1 mil in population is open to conversations about racial discrimination, and individuals generally do a good job and admit fault when some behavior is called out.

The opposite of this holds for UK. Pointing out racist behavior becomes denial. Everyone thinks that because they're not the US they're saints and have no racial issues.

This has been the experience of a bunch of my brown European friends as well. US is genuinely better when dealing with other people.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My impression is that another upside Silicon Valley has over the UK is that the US is genuinely a country of immigrants. Whatever hoops you have to jump through to get in or stay, I don't get the impression people are looked down on because they are foreign, once actually on the ground. Which is not so much the case in Brexitania. The UK is easily among the most tolerant and least racist of European countries. In i…

I'm someone who has lived both in UK and now in the US. UK has a huge issue with racism that people don't even want to acknowledge. The prejudice, micro aggressions, general nastiness from people is extremely off-putting in UK. In the US nearly every city with over 1 mil in population is open to conversations about racial discrimination, and individuals generally do a good job and admit fault when some behavior is ca…

You appear to be redefining racism as "willing to agree with me when I assert everything is racist". You aren't naming any specific problem you saw with actual racism, only that people react badly when you claim it's everywhere. But as you use words like micro-aggressions we can safely assume you're the type of person who led to lists like this:

https://twitter.com/titaniamcgrath/status/128102398724248780...

Don't conflate woke identity politics with racism. They are fundamentally different. British people are right to reject your America-centric obsession with finding racism in everything, given the UK's excellent track record.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still making stuff up. Read again

Sadly, behind every person who is prepared to act upon his or her racial animus with acts of physical violence directed against the innocent and helpless, there is an army of equally malevolent supporters and enablers who willingly compound the harm and trauma with gaslighting and similar abusive and manipulative acts.

Yes, at some point one has to wonder whether this is intentional. But it could also just be a product of cognitive dissonance which makes people read or understand something that has no basis in reality

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#155

Speaking as a UK immigrant to Switzerland, even though it is not in the EU, Brexit is just a massive pain. Switzerland has a somewhat strained relationship with the EU, but does have lots of bilateral agreements, like free movement in the Schengen zone, now I'm not even sure if I need a passport to cross the border to France for a day trip. Not to mention job prospects, it used to be Swiss, then EU then the rest of t…

Also speaking as a UK immigrant to Switzerland, Brexit hasn't changed anything and hasn't been a pain at all. If anything it's brought the UK closer to Switzerland because it's now got a friend who's also outside the UK and is big in financial services, so there have been lots of quick deals and collaborations signed between the two countries. But beyond that it makes no difference to my life.

Now it seems maybe you mis-understand the rules, which may be why you're claiming it's had a big impact on you when it should not. There are two things to recall:

1. The rights to a work permit only changed from January of this year. Everyone resident before that retains their prior rights. As you say you're soon going to apply for citizenship you presumably already have a work permit, so it's irrelevant - the grandfathering arrangement would apply for you.

2. Schengen rules say you must have ID with you at all times, even for internal travel. It's not well enforced so often people don't realize this, but you have always needed national ID like a passport not only to cross borders, but in theory, to go anywhere at all, even locally. Obviously the latter is ignored all the time but that's what the rules say. Also, the UK has never been a part of Schengen, and the UK leaving doesn't affect Schengen rules or Switzerland's application of them, so there's genuinely no change here.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#156
post #11

More like 'mission failed successfully' for the Tech sector in the UK. Many UK tech startups are getting acquired in all directions and the Big Tech companies in the US continue to open more offices in the UK. The biggest casualty of Brexit in the UK tech industry was ARM. The competition for UK tech startups to hire away talent from the big tech companies has become close to impossible. I don't think we are going to…

ARM was bought by a Japanese firm and they are now trying to sell it to a US firm. How is Brexit related?

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#157
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what was the main reason?

Apparently, "the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK". https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/02/how-the-uk-voted-on-br... I genuinely don't know how much I believe people when they say that, though; sometimes people saying that are unable to provide specific decisions that were made outside the UK (so not for any obvious practical reason or lived example), but also are unable to expand on the…

Given that's the only thing Brexit actually changed, you should probably believe people when they say that's what they wanted (if they voted for it). You seem to be assuming that if you talked to some people who aren't articulate enough they didn't have real reasons?

The desire for this is reasonable. There are lots of cases where dumb decisions were taken outside the UK against the will of the local government, many of which led to long-lasting resentment:

1. Most obviously, the total refusal by the EU to let the UK control immigration, which basically crushed all wage growth out of existence for nearly two decades. Also see: Germany's brilliant decision to let a million migrants in (at which point they can freely move elsewhere). Also: inability to prioritize immigrants from other English speaking countries like Australia, Canada, USA.

2. Transcription of vague "human rights" principles into actual law, which led to a lot of notorious high profile cases where the government tried to deport e.g. radical Islamists and the EU courts rejected it, or where criminals ended up basically playing the government by making mendacious arguments under these laws. This was especially nasty because the UK and Poland saw this problem coming and got confirmation in the treaties that EU human rights law wouldn't apply to the UK, in writing, as clearly as possible, and then the ECJ overturned it anyway in a pretty flagrant bit of judicial activism.

3. EU cookie laws. 100% stupid, never supported by the UK government, now being rolled back.

4. Fishing quotas that allocated most UK fish to other countries. Hence why fish is such an electric issue post-leaving.

5. CAP, which is basically a way to force Brits to subsidize French farmers. See also: the extremely high level of EU controlled subsidies and spending that create large amounts of waste, fraud and general weakness in the business sector.

There are a whole lot of others people might bring up, that's just some examples.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#158
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the entitlement people from other countries feel to live in my country. I don’t feel the same entitlement to live in their country. Also, just because they are rich or can start a tech company doesn’t make them any more entitled to live wherever they want any more than anyone else. Just a very bizarre stance IMO and it seems one-sided.

A dice is rolled and you're born in the world in some country, borders drawn on a map centuries ago by a person from another country. A world sliced and diced by imaginary lines, making groups out of people that in the best case share some common "culture". You are saying that in this world, everyone needs to live in the little territory that they were born?

> You are saying that in this world, everyone needs to live in the little territory that they were born?

Of course not. I'm saying that in this world you are not entitled to live in other people's territory and you must first gain their permission to live in their territory. If you are able to make the prerequisite arrangements you should be free to live wherever you want.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protectionism vs open markets, nothing needs to be black and white. You are just re-iterating the tiresome mantra of the EU beneficiaries 'in the end it will all work out for you too'. Except, maybe not in your lifetime. It is a fundamental neo liberal viewpoint, and I admit in my opinion Labor (parties) have abandonded their constituency since the mid-80s. And I think that needs to change, and if it takes a bit of p…

If you think that in our lifetimes we won't see an increase of quality of live in eastern Europe then I have some bad news for your about your expectations to see benefits from protectionism. Brexit did not make people in the UK happier, quite the opposite. I don't see a future where this will change.

> Brexit did not make people in the UK happier, quite the opposite.

Do you have sources for this?

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My impression is that another upside Silicon Valley has over the UK is that the US is genuinely a country of immigrants. Whatever hoops you have to jump through to get in or stay, I don't get the impression people are looked down on because they are foreign, once actually on the ground. Which is not so much the case in Brexitania. The UK is easily among the most tolerant and least racist of European countries. In i…

I'm someone who has lived both in UK and now in the US. UK has a huge issue with racism that people don't even want to acknowledge. The prejudice, micro aggressions, general nastiness from people is extremely off-putting in UK. In the US nearly every city with over 1 mil in population is open to conversations about racial discrimination, and individuals generally do a good job and admit fault when some behavior is ca…

"micro-aggressions", lol... i know that argument...

By liberal standards, being asked what your accent is, becomes the equivalent of being beaten to death by the KKK. Stop wanting so hard to be a victim.

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