Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic • Hacker News Board

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#151

Post by reneherse » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

TomMarius wrote: post #129

King-Aaron wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Hospitals should be run as public services instead of private companies.

But public healthcare service is much worse in my experience. I'm forced to be a part of a public system but I'd very much prefer to be able to pay private insurance and use private hospitals. We have private hospitals, but the government insurance isn't accepted there (because the law and the system doesn't allow it) and that makes it prohibitively expensive to me even though I'm a software developer for a USA compa…

Why not name the country?

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#152

Post by TomMarius » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

reneherse wrote: post #151

TomMarius wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But public healthcare service is much worse in my experience. I'm forced to be a part of a public system but I'd very much prefer to be able to pay private insurance and use private hospitals. We have private hospitals, but the government insurance isn't accepted there (because the law and the system doesn't allow it) and that makes it prohibitively expensive to me even though I'm a software developer for a USA compa…

Why not name the country?

The Czech Republic, it's even worse in Poland, Hungary and Slovakia (personal experience); I also have even more horror stories about the Czech system - right now I'm waiting for the third month to finally get a bad tooth checked (and I will have to pay around $500 if I don't want the tooth simply extracted, no other option covered by insurance is available).

On the other hand I had extremely good experience with cheap private healthcare in Ukraine. I wasn't brave enough to test their public system.

Sorry I didn't mention it, I thought I did but I mentioned just the currency.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#153

Post by fipple » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 3:37 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #148

ars wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That demonstrates an ignorance of what the medical profession is like in practice. People without family to watch them get terrible care. There are exceptions (ICU for example is usually pretty good), but any care that doesn't have someone watching/caring for them 24/7 is going to be bad. You NEED someone in the hospital watching out for you, unless you are in a unit where there is a permanent nurse on duty with you…

We weren't talking county general here. This was the Mayo clinic. I'm appalled at the anti-science luddite response to this yellow journalism that's called a news article, especially from HN folk.

LOL... my mother was in a hospital more famous than Mayo and it’s a lot different than you might think. My mother got 1000% better care than her roommates that didn’t have 24/7 family coverage.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#154

Post by pitaj » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #121

Seeing the Americans in this thread discuss their fear and mistrust of the medical system and the completely befuddling incentives that have been created in the US due to a for-profit medical system is straight up DISTURBING. Healthcare is a human right in our modern prosperous civilization. What America has done to it is preposterous. You should be rioting, not starting lawsuits.

Yep, the market distortions the government has created here are terrible for everyone.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#155

Post by TimSchumann » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 4:10 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #134

pjc50 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that due to medical privacy law we can't hear the hospital's side of this. There may be something there and it's not unheard of for the parents to also be weird and controlling. > financially benefits from that control Yeah, this is a more fundamental problem with for-profit hospitals - money gets involved in treatment decisions.

> Yeah, this is a more fundamental problem with for-profit hospitals - money gets involved in treatment decisions. Mayo is not for-profit.

With 63,000 employeess, annual revenues & total assets in the double digit billions, and a couple billion in liquid cash... they’re a very profitable not for-profit.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#156

Post by davycro » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

burfog wrote: post #2

There is a huge conflict of interest here. The hospital makes diagnosis, requests that the person lose their autonomy, gets control over that person, financially benefits from that control, and can use that control to hide any misdeeds or contrary evidence. There is also a profound disrespect for human autonomy. Hospitals disrespect autonomy for many people in many ways, with the most common being when birthing mothe…

Am doctor in an overwhelmed county hospital in the South. We are so overcapacity that most patients spend 12+ hours in a hallway waiting to be roomed. We have every motivation to discharge patients fast.

Hospitals are dangerous. You lose your sense of autonomy, are woken up throughout the night for blood draws or medication management, and are at risk for nomosocomial infection or delirium.

It’s an emotionally charged place and conflict between families and doctors happens often. Hard ethical questions happen. For instance a young man may come into the ED with massive polytrauma and require immediate blood transfusions to keep him alive. There’s a chance he would be the person to refuse a transfusion on religious grounds, and the family would be upset with our team for ‘violating his body’.

Because of situations like this, or the one described in the cnn article, ethic committees are an essential part of hospital care.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#157

Post by altmind » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

What is shocking that Mayo legal department was contacted and there was no reaction, nobody cared to prevent this blowout. Mayo vice president was contacted by the board member, and nothing was done. Social worker who should've defended patient rights actually acted against patient's will. Mayo Patient Experience office was contacted and nothing was done.

Basically every person and institution whose jobs are to protect patient rights, failed. I wonder if all departments so unaccountable and dysfunctional in Mayo?

If its a case of one bad doctor, why so many of the hospital departments failed to do their job?

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#158

Post by mavieengris » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #121

Seeing the Americans in this thread discuss their fear and mistrust of the medical system and the completely befuddling incentives that have been created in the US due to a for-profit medical system is straight up DISTURBING. Healthcare is a human right in our modern prosperous civilization. What America has done to it is preposterous. You should be rioting, not starting lawsuits.

The Mayo Clinic is a Non-profit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_Clinic

I agree that this particular case is egregious. But calling for riots based on unfounded speculation isn’t going to help fix healthcare.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#159

Post by ars » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

Chris_Chambers wrote: post #21

inetknght wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially scary if you have no trusted friends or relatives. There's an awful lot of people with asocial tendencies on the internet.

I have no friends or family here and am too socially crippled to make friends I would ever trust. I need a harmless procedure completed and doctors refuse to do it unless I have someone else with me who is willing to drive me home afterwards. Uber/Lyft/Taxi is not allowed either.

Use an online service to hire an assistant who can drive.

Re: Parents Break Teen Out of Mayo Clinic

#160

Post by anon08142018 » Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 8:22 PM UTC

TomMarius wrote: post #136

outside1234 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, we have thousands of obviously mentally ill people on the street homeless because we can't commit them because of that human autonomy that you mention. It all points to public healthcare where there is governance at a political level and not profit level.

Reposting a comment I made in another thread here: But public healthcare service is much worse in my experience. I'm forced to be a part of a public system but I'd very much prefer to be able to pay private insurance and use private hospitals. We have private hospitals, but the government insurance isn't accepted there (because the law and the system doesn't allow it) and that makes it prohibitively expensive to me e…

As someone who lives in the US, its frustrating to me that many people will read your anecdote and simply think that any public funding of healthcare equals communism, "death panels", delayed care, and abysmal levels of service.

My anecdote is that here in the US, if you lose your job and find yourself without insurance, you can literally go bankrupt from a relatively minor injury or sickness due to the extreme cost of medical care. There are plenty of long lines, bad doctors, and low quality hospitals here too so its not like you get rid of those things by going private. People decline to call the ambulance because they are afraid of getting charged thousands of dollars for it if their injury is not covered by insurance which sometimes ends in their death.

I watched my mom die in the hospital and if it weren't for a recent law passed by Obama, we would have had to dip into what little savings we had just to keep her comfortable for her last few days. There is a lot of space for a middle ground that does not need to be limited by your experience or mine.