131–140 of 180 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> credit goes to a couple judges who denied the Mayo clinic's requests Also to the police, who refused to pursue the "abduction" once it was clear that the patient was being taken care of at another hospital.
Credit, really? For pursuing the only sane course of action after all others have been played out?
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I've seen this too, but I've found ego is much more of a problem. I've seen doctors get locked into a course of action and get fixated on it. At that point, facts don't matter. They HAVE to be right. The other staff fall into line, because they have an ongoing work relationship, and only a transient connection to the patient. It's good that at least for now there is still choice in facilities in our country. This wou…
In another thread on long hospital shifts, commenters made the point that the detrimental effect of subtle information lost during a shift change often outweighs the effect of sleep loss during a long shift, when looking at patient outcomes. I wouldn't be surprised if doctors here were gaming the rules because they knew a transfer would cause more harm than good. On one hand, it's bad to disregard patient autonomy an…
>I wouldn't be surprised if doctors here were gaming the rules because they knew a transfer would cause more harm than good.
Well then they could have told the family that was their line of reasoning for not wanting the transfer. If they had a defensible reason they would have worked that angle before using the system to try to make an end run around the patient's/family's wishes.
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On the flip side, we have thousands of obviously mentally ill people on the street homeless because we can't commit them because of that human autonomy that you mention. It all points to public healthcare where there is governance at a political level and not profit level.
We can't commit them because mental hospitals keep getting closed.
I'm sure there is a good balance here, somewhere. But what we had and now have isn't it. A better balance feels like it should include a judge, 2 doctors with at least 2 hr patient time for each, and someone else that the patient knows.
There is a huge conflict of interest here. The hospital makes diagnosis, requests that the person lose their autonomy, gets control over that person, financially benefits from that control, and can use that control to hide any misdeeds or contrary evidence. There is also a profound disrespect for human autonomy. Hospitals disrespect autonomy for many people in many ways, with the most common being when birthing mothe…
Note that due to medical privacy law we can't hear the hospital's side of this. There may be something there and it's not unheard of for the parents to also be weird and controlling. > financially benefits from that control Yeah, this is a more fundamental problem with for-profit hospitals - money gets involved in treatment decisions.
Mayo is not for-profit.
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Credit, really? For pursuing the only sane course of action after all others have been played out?
Buy US policing standards I'd call that a resounding success story
There is a huge conflict of interest here. The hospital makes diagnosis, requests that the person lose their autonomy, gets control over that person, financially benefits from that control, and can use that control to hide any misdeeds or contrary evidence. There is also a profound disrespect for human autonomy. Hospitals disrespect autonomy for many people in many ways, with the most common being when birthing mothe…
On the flip side, we have thousands of obviously mentally ill people on the street homeless because we can't commit them because of that human autonomy that you mention. It all points to public healthcare where there is governance at a political level and not profit level.
But public healthcare service is much worse in my experience. I'm forced to be a part of a public system but I'd very much prefer to be able to pay private insurance and use private hospitals. We have private hospitals, but the government insurance isn't accepted there (because the law and the system doesn't allow it) and that makes it prohibitively expensive to me even though I'm a software developer for a USA company making nearly 6 figures - I'd have more than enough money for private services, but the government demands so much that I simply don't have enough left, and so I'm forced to take the "free" services (very huge quotes as I'm paying US$1500 per month for my government health insurance specifically - it's a separate line on my tax report).
Anecdotal story: One time I've driven my girlfriend to a major hospital (in the capital city of the country) because she had acute abdomen pains and the ambulance wouldn't even get there within 20 minutes (again, I live in the capital city). We spent more than 4 hours waiting before somebody even looked at her even though I tried really hard to get someone to look at her immediately, it simply wasn't possible; during our journey from the main gate to the emergency room, we were met with extreme disinterest in anything regarding our well being or providing good services at all. They sent me to a wrong building THREE TIMES while I was carrying her in hands even though I asked VERY CLEARLY where the emergency service is. When we got there, I had to pay around 100 CZK (5 USD) to even get into a queue, but no one told us, with no signs or anything around - the problem is that I specifically asked THE GUY THAT I LATER PAID TO if we need to do something. He didn't even look at me and he didn't even know where is the emergency room in his building. And then I had to pay around 50 USD for parking there for so long.
I have many first-hand experiences like that, e.g. you wouldn't believe the conditions and treatment that awaits you if you need to be hospitalized (5 and more people in one room, of course no AC, one shower and 2 toilets for ~10 rooms, one electrical socket for the whole room, of course no internet, TV always on at full volume, food that couldn't even be considered leftovers from neighboring low-tier restaurants, total disinterest of nurses and straight-up anger towards patients that need anything, people often need to have their beds in the hallway because there are not enough rooms, etc).
If you're pregnant, tough luck, there are literally 5 year-long queues to get into a "good" hospital (very low quality by US standards) and if you want something that is at least of average quality by US standards, you have only two options: Corruption or private - I have a whole savings account for that, but I'm a high income individual (it costs around US$50k in a private "high quality" hospital that'd be considered below average in the US, and there is no way to insure yourself against expenses in private hospitals, and even if there was, it'd be on top of the US$1500 I'm already paying).
My grandfather died because of these low quality services, but of course tough luck suing anyone or getting any compensation, that's simply not possible because "that's just how it is" is considered to be acceptable defense of the hospital and the system. Even if you're successful, the biggest compensation ever granted (and that happened just once) was around US$10k.
The only thing that is "good" (average compared to the US) is what we call "high-intensive hospital care", but you don't get into that very often - that's a completely separate department for people with very severe illness or very severe other problems, and of course even if you really need it, qualifying for it is very hard because there are not enough places.
Fuck public healthcare services. I'm completely okay with donating (even through taxes) some sum of money so everyone can have access to healthcare, but I want to buy my own healthcare services on a free market.
I live in Central Europe, btw. I expect downvotes to flow, but it'd be nice to have a discussion, so please, reply instead of downvoting if possible.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen this too, but I've found ego is much more of a problem. I've seen doctors get locked into a course of action and get fixated on it. At that point, facts don't matter. They HAVE to be right. The other staff fall into line, because they have an ongoing work relationship, and only a transient connection to the patient. It's good that at least for now there is still choice in facilities in our country. This wou…
Hospitals in the UK have for the last few years been receiving training to counter this, based on the lessons learnt by the airline industry - Cockpit Management. This was set in motion by an airline pilot whose daughter died in a hospital because of a mistake made by a senior surgeon who wouldn't listen to the junior staff who had noticed it. The tl;dr of it is that saying "Stop, I think you are making a mistake" is…
Anecdote: I had whooping cough a few years ago, unbeknownst to me, during a national whooping cough epidemic, where the NHS had put out a bulletin telling doctors to look out for whooping cough.
During this time I had fits where I wouldn't be able to call an ambulance because of the shaking. I also could have potentially killed infants I came into contact with.
Both the NHS and private doctor ignored the possibility of me having the disease - my partner's mother, a registered nurse, even suggested I ask them to look for it - simply because they didn't think of it when they first arrived.
And of course both the private and NHS doctors arrived late, don't apologise, and insist I call them by their title rather than their name.
My general feeling of the medical industry in the UK is that it has more respect for formality than professionalism.
know how I know this story has falsehoods? "After the calls from police, Alyssa’s parents figured out that their phones were being pinged and took the batteries out." 90% chance they all had iPhones. can't take iPhone batteries out. if they didn't, what phones have removable batteries? riddle me that.
Not necessarily. Outside of tech and the wealthy android has pretty good market share. It wasn't mentioned what her parents did for work but among blue collar professionals cheaper Android phones are the norm because their work environment tends to be hazardous to phones with large, thin glass screens.
According to the article, the hospital had attempted to gain medical guardianship and that was rejected by a court. So unless I'm missing something here, how on earth does a hospital justify keeping someone prisoner when a judge has ordered you to allow them to transfer hospitals if they want? They went through the rigamarole and lost. That sounds criminal. Did they lie to the cops, too, and say they were allowed to…
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In what sense are the courts not part of the goverment? It’s not like they are private, are they?
In the UK "government" is used both very generally (as you're construing it) to mean institutions including courts, police, the Bank of England, a local municipal authority, and thus about half of everything, and specifically to mean the executive, which in the UK is run directly by politicians from the ruling party in the legislature. Unless it's clear from context people usually mean the latter, and the executive s…
I'm British and I can't recall the term "government" being used in this way, even informally. I think most people, even if they're not interested in politics or our "unwritten constitution", would have some understanding that the courts, police, etc. are separate from the government that they elect. They may or may not have a word for what that thing is (the State) but nobody talks about people being "arrested by the government" or "convicted by the government".
I can imagine the people might think of the Civil Service as part of the government though.