The obvious solution is complete freedom of association. (To the extent that "fit" doesn't help companies succeed, it is its own punishment.) But this would make for a short article. It would also make for simple laws, and would prevent busybodies from making other company's hiring practices their business. But we couldn't have that—not in the Land of the Free.
Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
141–150 of 177 posts
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ouch. Even if what you say could be true, is it a good thing to send our kids to institutions of learning so that they can become arse-licking sycophants? Is that even a conscious decision in parenting?
Speaking as a lower-income student who went to an Ivy League university, appearing more similar to those in power is an entirely different thing than becoming an "arse-licking sycophant". I'd argue that going to a so-called "elite" institution is more akin to learning a language by immersion.
The height of this was probably reached in Britain, where minor details of language and behaviour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English http://www.helsinki.fi/jarj/ufy/24991_s113_150Ross.pdf were an infallible giveaway as to who had or had not been to public school.
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#143The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…
I understand not drinking and not playing video games, but saying that you have no hobbies would be pretty weird in an interview. They're just trying to get to know you. Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot.
I was interviewing Java developers for Booz Allen when I rant into a candidate that was super-smart but had no hobbies except for coding in his spare time.
I thought it was a negative because the hiring managers and recruiters were pressing for a well-rounded person with "hobbies" and interests outside of work. However, the team lead for Java developers considered the super-focus on coding a plus.
In retrospect, all of these different factors were just subjective and not a good way to evaluate candidates potential effectiveness on the job.
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you realize it is you being the bigot here?
Because I don't want to hire religious fanatics in where I work or bigot means that I don't share the same opinion as yours?
You define someone who doesn't drink beer as a religious fanatic? How about someone who doesn't eat pork? How do you not see this as wrong?
It is the attitude you claim to despise, that you are currently exhibiting.
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
To add to the list of reasons someone would not drink: depression. Most Americans will suffer depression at sometime and alcohol often works against recovery. You definitely don't want to attmept to bring up mental illness in an interview.
Is it illegal to discriminate on mental health grounds? I wonder if it comes under the disabilites laws in the US?
I just tried to google around a bit for this and the answer actually seems surprisingly unclear re: disability laws in particular (ADA). I would think that mental health status would fall under general health status, though, which is a protected class. (E.g., I can't refuse to hire you just because you have diabetes or a food allergy, and in the same way I can't refuse to hire you just because you have clinical depression.)
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kids and house aren't hobbies. They're responsibilities.
They can be both.
> an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation:
You're basically positing a definition of "hobby" that encompasses everything that isn't working. Caring for children is a basic life function and an obligation. It can be relaxing and pleasurable, but so can showers and eating--that doesn't make it a hobby. Hobbies are things you do optionally.
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#147The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…
Not to sound insulting, though this might be, but without knowing more details I'm going to assume you're failing at the soft interview questions. In an industry where creativity is just as important as engineering knowledge, it's absolutely critical that you nail your soft interview questions. Don't be afraid or insulted by them, OWN them. Spend time this weekend thinking about what exactly your hobbies are. You def…
I would disagree that they are soft questions and just say that they're just bad and useless questions. The expectation tends to be that the candidate takes whatever is thrown at them, and in practice it does make a little sense: once you're in the interview, you're in the interview. But here, commenting on a forum, I'd rather push back and ask interviewers to stop asking questions that don't achieve anything useful, and won't achieve the insights they might imagine.
So instead of soft questions asking about hobbies, and excluding all the many examples of people families, why not talk about interesting on-the-job experiences? As one example. Interviewing well is a tough gig, but that's no excuse for continuing to do it poorly.
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not the OP, but I don't drink alcohol in social situations much - typically not as a lunch beverage with team mates - for 1 primary reason: I don't like the taste. I have no moral objections against a glass of beer or wine with a meal, and occasionally will have a glass of wine with a dinner (usually not, because I'm normally driving somewhere as well). I've done the 'go to lunch' during an interview, and beer came u…
If you don't like the taste of beer or alcoholic beverages for the matter is fine with me and I'd like to clarify that I don't have prob either with the religious cop-out but you'll have to forgive me if I get you under more scrutiny just to ensure that you fit well within the inclusive environment because from my experience religious people esp. from certain backgrounds (let's stick with PC for now not to inflame th…
Stop down voting this guy so much. I can barely read the comments they are so faint. :) I'm actually glad he's saying this stuff. It just proves there are plenty of narrow minded people out there and, unfortunately, many of them are in hiring roles.
Edit: I'm not actually glad he's saying these things. It's pretty sad.
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Distinguishes you from a robot, WHEN? After the 80 hours a week spent at work, 56 hours a week spent sleeping (going to work while sleep deprived is like going to work drunk, so they do expect you to sleep!), 3.5 hours a week spent showering (and they do expect you to come to work clean, wonder why), 10 hours a week spent in commuting to work, 7 hours a week spent on feeding yourself (and they do expect you to eat so…
Let's start from 80 hours a week spent at work. Red flag #1. Don't know why you would assume that's necessary 3.5 hours/week showering. Red flag #2. Even if you shower every single day, if you're spending 30 minutes in the shower each time you might as well call it a hobby. Unless you've got long luxurious hair, you should be able to get everything done in 10 minutes. 10 hours commuting, so 1 hour each way? #3 How mu…
He used the word "shower", but I think he meant the time it takes to look respectable - so please add drying after shower, shaving, toilet trip(s), dressing, etc.
Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cultural fit can definitely impact performance. Imagine a luddite working for a biotechnology company, or an anarchist working for the government, or a muslim working for an atheist non-profit. These people would never find the motivation to perform better than the absolute minimum required to keep their jobs because their goals and the goals of the organization are complete opposites. They could even go as far as sa…
Not necessarily. There are plenty of Muslims who could help an atheist non profit by maintaining their professionalism. Likewise for your other examples. By assuming that they will let their beliefs sabotage their work, you're judging a whole group by the potential actions of zero or more people. That's just discrimination against people with these various beliefs without proof. By this line of reasoning you could sa…
They can be professional all they like but if they only have money as a motivator to work at a place they hate then they'll just be poor performers. They won't have the energy to do more than the bare minimum. Motivation is just not something that you can command at will.