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Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

nytimes.com

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Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#121

Post by joesmo »

DanBC wrote: post #114
notNow wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't like the taste of beer or alcoholic beverages for the matter is fine with me and I'd like to clarify that I don't have prob either with the religious cop-out but you'll have to forgive me if I get you under more scrutiny just to ensure that you fit well within the inclusive environment because from my experience religious people esp. from certain backgrounds (let's stick with PC for now not to inflame th…

I'm always surprised when people admit to illegal hiring practice in a public forum.

Certainly establishes that the point of the article is real, if not even proving it.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#122

Post by [deleted] »

ceras wrote: post #86
notNow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask what's your objection to drinking beer? The reason I ask because some people abstain for religious reasons and I seriously don't relish the company of fundie folks around me because from experience over time they won't settle for exercising just their own rights but till they impose or restrict other people's rights or make them at least feel very uncomfortable in the workplace.

Wow, this is a surprising response to a pretty normal and mild preference. Would you worry about hiring a Republican in a predominantly Democratic team? What about a Red Sox fan to an NYC-based team? I've had multiple coworkers who abstain from alcohol for religious reasons - never had a single problem, just like with any other moral/political/racial/etc differences. And if it were a problem, a good manager can deal…

[deleted]

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#123

Post by rayiner »

IvyMike wrote: post #77
arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

It's tough on an interview to get a feel for how a person is in day-to-day conversation. So the interviewers are looking for areas of common interest to talk about. If they are young, they may have a limited repertoire of topics that usually work; if you shut down all of their ideas for conversation, I hope you at least tried to come up with some topics of your own. Otherwise, you won't have a conversation, and they…

Kids and house aren't hobbies. They're responsibilities.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#124

Post by mahyarm »

informatimago wrote: post #90
xaybey wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand not drinking and not playing video games, but saying that you have no hobbies would be pretty weird in an interview. They're just trying to get to know you. Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot.

Distinguishes you from a robot, WHEN? After the 80 hours a week spent at work, 56 hours a week spent sleeping (going to work while sleep deprived is like going to work drunk, so they do expect you to sleep!), 3.5 hours a week spent showering (and they do expect you to come to work clean, wonder why), 10 hours a week spent in commuting to work, 7 hours a week spent on feeding yourself (and they do expect you to eat so…

I would subtract 20 hours from being at work. And you can shorten your commute if you choose to move. Many places are fine with you working on the train while commuting, or just working from home some days.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#125

Post by joesmo »

MarcusVorenus wrote: post #116
joesmo wrote: post #95

"Cultural fit" is just another form of discrimination, a currently legal alternative to racism, sexism, and other forms of illegal discrimination in the US to keep the "unliked" and "unwanted" out of jobs. The author acknowledges this, yet still sees fit to add advice for using cultural fit; that weakens the article a bit, but not much. The reality is "cultural fit" should never be used to make decisions. It is never…

Cultural fit can definitely impact performance. Imagine a luddite working for a biotechnology company, or an anarchist working for the government, or a muslim working for an atheist non-profit. These people would never find the motivation to perform better than the absolute minimum required to keep their jobs because their goals and the goals of the organization are complete opposites. They could even go as far as sa…

Not necessarily. There are plenty of Muslims who could help an atheist non profit by maintaining their professionalism. Likewise for your other examples. By assuming that they will let their beliefs sabotage their work, you're judging a whole group by the potential actions of zero or more people. That's just discrimination against people with these various beliefs without proof. By this line of reasoning you could say that Catholics should never be hired at planned parenthood because they will sabotage it. Total load of bull shit and exactly the reason "cultural fit" should be illegal. It's just plain discrimination.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#126

Post by Joky »

In my opinion "cultural fit" is important, but it has to be about work culture. For instance: are you comfortable with code reviews (or lack of thereof), coding standards, how are you positioning yourself with respect to pressure, etc. I overlooked this when joining my current team and I'm already thinking about finding a new place to land!

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#127

Post by walshemj »

lordnacho wrote: post #23
EliRivers wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WTF are you talking about? "Hacker" is entirely cultural. It was in its infancy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(programmer_subculture) ) and it is now. Part of it's current culture is the pretence that it's all about skill; it's not. The completely lacking in skill won't get recognised as part of it, but it's attitude and style that buys admission to that club. These days, software places that are looking for…

A subculture that requires you to have a specific skill...

The only skills a "Hacker" needs is to be able to learn new things quickly and curiosity.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#128

Post by philwelch »

npinguy wrote: post #120
informatimago wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distinguishes you from a robot, WHEN? After the 80 hours a week spent at work, 56 hours a week spent sleeping (going to work while sleep deprived is like going to work drunk, so they do expect you to sleep!), 3.5 hours a week spent showering (and they do expect you to come to work clean, wonder why), 10 hours a week spent in commuting to work, 7 hours a week spent on feeding yourself (and they do expect you to eat so…

Let's start from 80 hours a week spent at work. Red flag #1. Don't know why you would assume that's necessary 3.5 hours/week showering. Red flag #2. Even if you shower every single day, if you're spending 30 minutes in the shower each time you might as well call it a hobby. Unless you've got long luxurious hair, you should be able to get everything done in 10 minutes. 10 hours commuting, so 1 hour each way? #3 How mu…

I have long, luxurious hair. Hair only stays long and luxurious if you don't wash it daily. My showers go from 5 minutes to 10-15 minutes on hair wash days.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#129

Post by walshemj »

andrewchoi wrote: post #65
ak39 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"appearing more similar to those in power" ... So you must possess the talent of Tom Ripley?

I don't think that's true; it's really more about learning the lingua franca of a different world. Style, hobbies, etc. I didn't know what "rowing crew" was until I got to college, and to be honest, I still have no idea how lacrosse is played.

Lacrosse / Field Hockey is for those who cant handle playing Rugger.

I recall one of my first Bosses who went to the same public school as one of Pres Obamas roommates at Harvard said the school sports are Rugger, Rowing and Drinking Beer

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#130

Post by mbrameld »

rayiner wrote: post #123
IvyMike wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tough on an interview to get a feel for how a person is in day-to-day conversation. So the interviewers are looking for areas of common interest to talk about. If they are young, they may have a limited repertoire of topics that usually work; if you shut down all of their ideas for conversation, I hope you at least tried to come up with some topics of your own. Otherwise, you won't have a conversation, and they…

Kids and house aren't hobbies. They're responsibilities.

They can be both.
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