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Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

nih.gov

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Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#141

Post by puttycat »

moomoo11 wrote: post #101

Is this really surprising? Any time I had used cannabis I felt like my IQ dropped 20-30 points and I would lose hours of my day where it was difficult for me to learn. It made doing household chores not terrible, but brought out a lot of panic inducing moments and erratic behavior. I was thinking about a 100k other things while doing one thing. Later on I realized I wasn't even doing that one thing so well. Anything…

My experience exactly. Thank you for describing this so well.

I think the greatest problem with marijuana discourse is that it ignores the large variability in effects. For me, and apparently for you and for many others, the description above is exact (which I found entire extremely enjoyable, of course). For others it’s very different, allowing them to function completely normally.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#142

Post by heavyset_go »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #118
heavyset_go wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palm oils in particular are not very healthy and are suspected to be a leading cause of diet-induced heart disease. Not all fats are created equally, or in equal proportions. Palm oils are high in specific saturated fats that are linked to cardiovascular disease. Palm oils are some of the most common fats found in prepared foods, especially foods that need solid fats at room temperatures. The majority of peanut butte…

What an interesting, and dare I say nuanced, point. Let’s add to it how good fats can become bad through releasing free radicals, which happens at approximately the same temperature that a lot of animal fats are cooked at.

A few years ago, I did some reading on PubMed to figure out what fats are best to cook with. Came to the conclusion that extra virgin olive oil, which papers use the acronym "EVOO" for, is best for frying, whether that's pan or deep frying, and cooking in general.

It's high in monounsaturated fats and studies found that various compounds in EVOO prevent the formation of free radicals, volatile organic compounds, aldehydes like formaldehyde, etc compared to other cooking oils.

One study looked at the use of frying oils over time, since the longer the oils are heated, the more they decompose into harmful compounds. EVOO won out on that, too, and significantly inhibited the creation of harmful products. This would be relevant for restaurants, which tend to reuse oils over long periods of time, or anyone that cooks big meals for themselves or others. If you're going to be standing over a pan cooking for hours at a time, it's worth reducing the amount of harmful compounds you'll inevitably breathe in.

Typically refined oils are preferred for frying because they can be used at higher temperatures, but I've found cooking with EVOO to be just fine, just don't cook things at temperatures where it might start smoking.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#143

Post by _-david-_ »

jamesssssss833 wrote: post #88
darth_avocado wrote: post #12

I’m glad this research is being done. I don’t use cannabis, but I also don’t frown upon it. However some of the conversations on the use of cannabis recently have changed from “it’s a drug, but it isn’t that bad” to “it is completely harmless”. Which in my opinion is very dangerous and could harm entire populations before we have enough research. In my opinion, it should be considered similar category as alcohol, cig…

In a lot of ways in the US i see the issue here coming down to prohibition. If Marijuana was legal and regulated then the FDA could prosecute fraudsters that claim the drug is “completely hazard free miracle herb that doctors HATE”. Of course irresponsible fools are taking advantage in a gap in the law to make short term profits.

What is stopping them from going after fraudsters now?

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#144

Post by scythe »

nico wrote: post #94
scythe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary positive effect of cannabis in the general population is probably that it tends to interfere with alcohol consumption, due to excessive sedation. This probably explains the lack of negative population-level effects of cannabis legalization. The most concerning effect of cannabis is its tendency to increase heart rate. Quite a bit of research is available on the effects of cannabis use — the problem is tha…

Recently attended a lecture on Cannabis by a renowned researcher on the subject (the Director of the UCLA Center for Cannabis & Cannabinoids) The most adverse (proven) effects of Cannabis are: * Frequent bronchitis (for people that smoke it) * Risk of vehicle crashes * Low pregnancy weight, preterm birth, NICU * Mental health (associated risk of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, Cannabis use diso…

Bronchitis? I've known a lot of marijuana smokers, and I don't recall any of them ever having bronchitis.

>Mental health (associated risk of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, Cannabis use disorder)

Small but >1 ORs for a rare disorder like schizophrenia (base rate ~0.02%) sound scarier than they really are. Many recreational activities are associated with a similar increase in the risk of concussion (base rate ~1%), and yet they are actually recommended for general health. Correlation of recreational drug use with depression/anxiety has a causal direction problem.

Others in this thread have linked studies about the effects on the heart. It remains to be seen what the long-term risk profile is.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#145

Post by tristor »

Maursault wrote: post #111
tristor wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really think all men should withhold all judgement of women, pregnant or not. No. The right to an opinion and to express it is not contingent on ones gender or gender expression. It is perfectly reasonable for people to make observations, conduct scientific research, form opinions, and discuss those opinions even if the outcome of such doesn't personally affect them. And, in point of fact, it's /strictly necessar…

It isn't people you're talking about, it is only men. The issue is only men are giving their opinion, which they feel very strongly about, and it is a circumstance they, biologically speaking, can never experience. So please take the advice of another man: whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent . A woman's right to do as she pleases with her body is as absolute as a man's right to do as he pleases with…

We're not talking about the right to bodily autonomy, we're talking about doing scientific research and forming and expressing opinions. By your logic, we should rip down all the signs legally mandated in bar bathrooms informing people that alcohol during pregnancy causes birth defects.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#146

Post by jamesssssss833 »

_-david-_ wrote: post #143
jamesssssss833 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a lot of ways in the US i see the issue here coming down to prohibition. If Marijuana was legal and regulated then the FDA could prosecute fraudsters that claim the drug is “completely hazard free miracle herb that doctors HATE”. Of course irresponsible fools are taking advantage in a gap in the law to make short term profits.

What is stopping them from going after fraudsters now?

The FDA deals with enforcing standards on anything that is medicine (or claims to be) regulating vendors and suppliers. They’re able to enforce standards on any legal drug, however mj is still illegal at the federal level, leaving it to the DEA to enforce and they dont really care about standards and safety so much as seizing large sums of money from drug deals.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#147

Post by opportune »

tsol wrote: post #130
taurath wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you post a source for any claim that theyre harmless? I don’t think any reputable researcher has ever said that, but they have started talking about potential for positive effects, which is a far cry from “if you take this it will ruin your life”.

I don't think there are any researchers saying marijuana is anything but beneficial. It's every day people. Same thing for psychedelics. There was a thread on LSD the other day and I had to point out twice that HPPD happens as a result, and is a disorder that can cause significant mental distress. Honestly I think it only does a disservice to the cause to make claims like that

Agreed, it is the general public propagating this. Just go onto Reddit and you’ll see it everywhere.

For cannabis I find the attitude pretty scary, having been a daily user myself several times (including now) and dealing with the side effects. It does have negatives. I would hate for everyone to have to learn that the hard way or for them to misidentify the causes, though even those side effects are pretty mild - some are acutely bad like CHS but it’s more the mild anhedonia as you sober up that I think is the worst.

For psychedelics, having dabbled myself, I can confidently say the worst case scenario is very bad and often not talked about. A bad trip can be an intensely traumatic experience. I think it would be possible to get PTSD from such an experience. Ironically my own bad trip was precipitated by lighting up a bowl about 5 hours after taking LSD.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#148

Post by sersnth »

Bud wrote: post #47
Godel_unicode wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fat includes transfat. This back-and-forth does an excellent job of underlining GPs point about those being complex subjects that require study and nuanced explanation.

It's not that complex, actually. The vast majority of fats, all the natural ones, basically, are fine. Healthy, even. The weirdass plastic fats created by injecting hydrogen into vegetable oil are not fine. Done! Was that really so nuanced? No. It was not.

That describes both partially and fully hydrogenated fats, but only the partially hydrogenated fats contain trans fat. As far as I know fully hydrogenated fats are not any more unhealthy than other saturated fats.

Re: Prenatal cannabis exposure associated with mental disorders in children

#150

Post by opportune »

oaktrout wrote: post #135
skissane wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stumbling upon cases like this one really shocked me - “Penile self-amputation due to cannabis-induced psychosis: a case report” https://jmedicalcasereports.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.11... (Edit: graphic images warning) If you search PubMed, you will find case reports of other similar incidents. Now, no denying this is an extremely rare adverse effect, but still a quite frightening one. (Also worth stating, many…

I have a feeling that these individuals (I could only find two in my pubmed search) were suffering from schizophrenia, not cannabis-induced psychosis. Maybe you could make the argument that the cannabis caused the schizophrenia, but that's still a different diagnosis. In the case you link the guy had smoked weed for two years prior with no apparent issues. Yes his psychosis resolved after he stopped using cannabis, b…

I hear this argument every time someone does something bad on psychedelics and cannabis. I’ve also heard that, if the patient had no history of schizophrenia or related disorders, they must have just had it latent and were bound to get it anyway.

Bottom line is there is no way for any individual to really know if they have latent schizophrenia anyway, and I think it’s a conveniently non-disprovable explanation for why psychedelics and cannabis aren’t bad.

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