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DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

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Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#141

Post by diyorgasms »

cmurf wrote: post #121
ciconia wrote: post #101

I was a foreign student at UCSD during 9/11 and have witnessed the hysterical reaction of the Bush administration, the establishment of the DHS and the TSA and their ridiculous security theatre. At a time when the world is more interconnected than ever, and technology offers "the world at your fingertips", these bigots want to shut us in and make everybody hate each other. Personally, it is heartbreaking to see the s…

The entire country is not in a meltdown. There's a president and a handful of Angsthasen in a meltdown, pretty much successfully dragging their party with them, and trying to drag the country into one also. Give it time to process. We have been through much worse. Don't write off the whole lot who do not agree with the true intent of these policies. Now maybe some of us can stop being so naive about broken campaign p…

Trump guys are, have been, and always will be complicit in the pain, suffering, and death we are visiting on people. I will never forgive them for this.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#142

Post by maxlybbert »

maxlybbert wrote: post #66
gizmo686 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I don't remember that being a scandal. I do remember that being a scandal. To your main point, a story has been going around that a court has put a stay on the executive order. If true, this would mean that enforcing the order is currently illegal; and doing so could be called a "coup" by the executive branch (although I don't think this technically qualifies as a coup). Having said that, my understanding is tha…

One rule the courts generally follow is that they try to limit the scope of their rulings. Plus, of course, the country is divided into several federal districts, and a ruling in one district doesn't necessarily apply to other districts. So I understood the injunction out of a San Francisco courtroom only applied to particular travelers whom, via the ACLU, had filed a challenge to how the order was applied to them. T…

News stories I've seen today suggest that the order covers more people than I expected. Even so, people working for DHS are legally bound to enforce the portions of the order that aren't covered by the injunction (and, of course, to honor the injunction for the people it covers).

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#143

Post by dang »

Tulip68 wrote: post #110
tn13 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> put aside petty partisan bickering and remove this fascist con-man from office immediately. All I see is the fascist partisan bickering in your post. Trump has legitimately won the election and is doing what his powers let him do. He was clear about Muslim ban before election too and people voted for him. I think we can make better arguments as to why his moronic executive orders hurt USA in a major way and perhaps…

He lost the popular vote by millions of votes. The majority of America has made it very clear they do not want this fascist to be their President and the only reason he got through is because of Russian hacking our election to try and throw our country into chaos (and boy have they ever succeeded). And don't you dare lecture me about getting "angry" over this. Why don't you learn some empathy and consider how you'd f…

We've banned this account for crossing into personal attack and abusive rhetoric, even by the standards of these overheated threads. Please don't create accounts to break the HN guidelines with.

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Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#144

Post by dang »

cmurf wrote: post #113
douche wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the hell is this context that you speak of? Defending the country's borders? Defending native industry? Preventing immigration from groups statistically likely to commit terrorist acts?

Sending Jews on boats back to Germany because they might not be refugees but Nazis looking to infiltrate the mainland? Scared little bunny rabbits. Go scurry and hide rather than demand the rest of the world live in fear with you.

Commenting like this will get your account banned, so please don't do it. Comments here need to become more civil and substantive, not less, as topics get more divisive. If you can't do that, please don't post.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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Also, please don't use HN primarily for political battle. That's an abuse of this site, and we ban accounts that do it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13515696.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#145

Post by smsm42 »

skuhn wrote: post #53
smsm42 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"less than" doesn't mean "approximately that number".

The language is obviously chosen to minimize (and trivialize) the number of people. If it were 1600 people, don't you think they would say less than 0.5%? If it were 3 people, don't you think they would say that? Anyway, read it however you like. I choose to read it as the maximum number of people that could fit within their language, because I think it was written to be purposefully ambiguous.

Real number seems to be somewhere around 100-200 - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-conf...

The American Civil Liberties Union, which sought the stay, said it would help 100 to 200 people with visas or refugee status who found themselves detained in transit or at U.S. airports.

ACLU has no reason to underplay the number of people affected while seeking emergency order to help them, so we can treat this as good approximation.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#146

Post by skuhn »

smsm42 wrote: post #145
skuhn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language is obviously chosen to minimize (and trivialize) the number of people. If it were 1600 people, don't you think they would say less than 0.5%? If it were 3 people, don't you think they would say that? Anyway, read it however you like. I choose to read it as the maximum number of people that could fit within their language, because I think it was written to be purposefully ambiguous.

Real number seems to be somewhere around 100-200 - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-conf... The American Civil Liberties Union, which sought the stay, said it would help 100 to 200 people with visas or refugee status who found themselves detained in transit or at U.S. airports. ACLU has no reason to underplay the number of people affected while seeking emergency order to help them, so we can tr…

Agreed that the ACLU has no reason to downplay the number, so maybe it is more on that order of magnitude.

My only point of confusion is whether the ACLU is committing to helping all people in this situation (100-200 total) or if they are saying they have the resources available for a limited number of people (100-200 of potentially more).

Either way, it would be great if the US government -- which is the only entity able to factually calculate this number, and which could have determined the number before enforcing the EO by cross-referencing passenger manifests -- would act like responsible adults and admit what they have done.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#147

Post by dragonwriter »

noobermin wrote: post #32
aerovistae wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Department of Homeland Security will comply with judicial orders; Think you might've read over that

That is one sentence in an order in which almost every other sentence contradicts it. EDIT: I'm not sure who they are trying to speak to here, are they admitting they will follow the judicial order? Clearly to most people here, we are interpreting it as not following the order because the hint of "following judicial orders" is relegated to the end. The opening of the statement (first sentence) is: >The Department of…

It's a sentence in a press release, not an order.

> I'm not sure who they are trying to speak to here, are they admitting they will follow the judicial order?

It's a press release, so the audience is the press (and the public.)

It's probably deliberately contradictory specifically so that people able to read their own preferences into it.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#148

Post by cmurf »

dang wrote: post #144
cmurf wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sending Jews on boats back to Germany because they might not be refugees but Nazis looking to infiltrate the mainland? Scared little bunny rabbits. Go scurry and hide rather than demand the rest of the world live in fear with you.

Commenting like this will get your account banned, so please don't do it. Comments here need to become more civil and substantive, not less, as topics get more divisive. If you can't do that, please don't post. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html Also, please don't use HN primarily for political battle. That's an abuse of this site, and we ban accounts that d…

I have a substantial history on HN aside from commenting on recent politics. And it's a gross distortion that you assert I've used this account primarily for "political battle".

The parent asked a question "Preventing immigration from groups statistically likely to commit terrorist acts?" and I answered it with a rhetorical question based on historical fact. Jewish refugees were returned to Germany under the auspices that they might be Nazis and threaten the security of the U.S. and they were murdered as a result.

The context of this entire thread is an executive order made on the International Holocaust Remembrance Day, a day in part, we remember how complicit we were in the murder of Jewish refugees by not protecting them, all because we were scared of hypotheticals rather than stand up for refugees. The ensuing national guilt is why we established the refugee policies we've had since WWII. Those policy makers refusing these refugees deserved to be called scared bunny rabbits, that's what they were and innocent people died because of the con game we played: that refugees were likely to commit terrorist acts. Calling them scared bunny rabbits is a kindness, and it is polite, and it is civil. Imagine what I really think.

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autoc...

Now, if you folks can't handle political conversations, ban the submissions, not the ensuing discussions.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#149

Post by dang »

cmurf wrote: post #148
dang wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commenting like this will get your account banned, so please don't do it. Comments here need to become more civil and substantive, not less, as topics get more divisive. If you can't do that, please don't post. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html Also, please don't use HN primarily for political battle. That's an abuse of this site, and we ban accounts that d…

I have a substantial history on HN aside from commenting on recent politics. And it's a gross distortion that you assert I've used this account primarily for "political battle". The parent asked a question "Preventing immigration from groups statistically likely to commit terrorist acts?" and I answered it with a rhetorical question based on historical fact. Jewish refugees were returned to Germany under the auspices…

That's good, but your recent comment history looked overwhelmingly political to me, hence my request.

If you really don't see what's wrong with posting like this, we have a problem. Even if your position is 100% right, such rhetoric makes this place worse. Right people don't get to do that any more than wrong people do. Indeed, they arguably harm more.

Re: DHS will continue to enforce all of President Trump’s Executive Orders

#150

Post by cmurf »

dang wrote: post #149
cmurf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a substantial history on HN aside from commenting on recent politics. And it's a gross distortion that you assert I've used this account primarily for "political battle". The parent asked a question "Preventing immigration from groups statistically likely to commit terrorist acts?" and I answered it with a rhetorical question based on historical fact. Jewish refugees were returned to Germany under the auspices…

That's good, but your recent comment history looked overwhelmingly political to me, hence my request. If you really don't see what's wrong with posting like this, we have a problem. Even if your position is 100% right, such rhetoric makes this place worse. Right people don't get to do that any more than wrong people do. Indeed, they arguably harm more.

Scared people are not bad people. But they cannot protect the weakest among us. They will betray everything we claim is right, and moral, and give into fear. And they're among the first to demand everyone else be fearful, and to ask for the end to discussions that progress the conversation among those who are not fearful.

When people see something that isn't right or fair or just they have a moral obligation to say something. Saying otherwise is just another betrayal and weakens everyone.

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