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Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

theguardian.com

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Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#131

Post by KevinMS »

Where are these horror stories coming from? I've bought thousands of things off amazon for the last 10 years and almost never have a problem, and the price is at least equal to someplace I'd drive to. Not only do I use prime deliveries, I also watch prime streaming, buy groceries through Fresh, and host things on AWS

Their return policies are really lenient too. I bought a computer monitor, didn't like it so I sent it back, bought another and liked it even less, sent it back. The third one I liked, all the returns didn't cost me a thing.

Just a few weeks ago, just be accident, I got a refund on a loaf of bread that had been dented, while I was getting service on something else. Nothing is perfect, but their online chat support has resolved any problem I've had, even if it took some effort.

I don't want to sound like an ad although I probably do, but what am I doing right? Do I somehow, instinctually, avoid products that will be trouble? If things were as bad as the comments suggest, I don't think amazon would be still in business. If this is enshittification, more please.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#132

Post by pkal »

nullhole wrote: post #2

Maybe I'm prudish, but I really dislike the term 'enshittification'. It sounds ugly, and it makes what would otherwise be polite discussions vulgar. 'Degradation' seems to carry most (all?) of the same meaning and doesn't have those downsides.

I agree with you -- I never use vulgar words, so I cannot use this word myself. That being said, maybe you saw this article being posted a few days ago: https://frankchimero.com/blog/2025/selling-lemons/ writing about the concept of "Market for Lemons". The last paragraph compares the two ideas:

> What makes the Market for Lemons concept so appealing (and what differentiates it in my mind from ens**tification) is that everyone can be acting reasonably, pursuing their own interests, and things still get worse for everyone. No one has to be evil or stupid: the platform does what’s profitable, sellers do what works, buyers try to make smart decisions, and yet the whole system degrades into something nobody actually wants.

(I don't know if Doctorow's concept really relies on malice.)

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#133

Post by Semaphor »

tacker2000 wrote: post #110
dwedge wrote: post #64

I bought a $120 book from Amazon a couple of months ago, internationally, and they sent the wrong book. I told them, and they said they'd refund it, don't need to send it back, and they'd even add $15 credit. The refund never arrived so a few weeks later I got in touch again and they said I need to send it back if I want a refund. They told me the previous CSR had lied to improve ratings. I asked who I can complain t…

The moment amazon.de turns into this, im gone. The only thing keeping me there is the no-nonsense, helpful, customer support. Any issues i have are always resolved, so it still seems to be working over here.

Had a similar (not as bad) experience on .de a while ago.

That was when I canceled my prime subscription which I had almost as long as it existed here.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#134

Post by OJFord »

mykowebhn wrote: post #123
dwedge wrote: post #64

I bought a $120 book from Amazon a couple of months ago, internationally, and they sent the wrong book. I told them, and they said they'd refund it, don't need to send it back, and they'd even add $15 credit. The refund never arrived so a few weeks later I got in touch again and they said I need to send it back if I want a refund. They told me the previous CSR had lied to improve ratings. I asked who I can complain t…

How did you even tell them that they sent the wrong book? When an item I ordered is delivered as the wrong item or when it never arrives, I can only select from a list of items in order to inform them about the bad delivery and none of the items lists "item never arrived" or "wrong item arrived". And there is no other way to complain about the delivery/item--no help chat, no email I can contact.

One of the return options is 'item did not arrive'. You can also select 'I need help with another issue' or something like that, and either chat with support and explain or request a call.

(At least, in the UK. Like sibling comment to yours it's the amazing support and returns that makes me shop at Amazon (.de in their case) - I don't recognise the disaster described elsewhere in thread and I probably wouldn't shops there!)

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#135

Post by dev_l1x_be »

I only buy cheap garbage from Amazon and check the reviews for the more pricey items there. It is not worth the hassle. Price from buying it somewhere more reliable is most definitely worth it. I attribute this to MBA types taking over. They care about metrics that are optimized for their promotions not for customer satisfaction.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#136

Post by jaccola »

What on earth is he talking about? Firstly, I find Amazon fine for goods that are hard to be faked (washing powder, books, etc...).

But the real shocker to me is:

> That means shopping anywhere other than Amazon has become substantially more inconvenient.

and

> We’re all still stuck to the platform, but we get less and less value out of it.

I've simply started buying all of my electronics, and other expensive goods from the manufacturer (D2C) or a reputable retailer in the space. My groceries I can order through my supermarket or one of the grocery focused platforms. They all offer simple free or cheap shipping at a convenient time. I think, to some extent, Amazon has helped this push for better/cheaper shipping.

> Break up with Amazon and delete your apps, and you will lose all the media you’ve ever bought from the platform.

Yes... but if you simply stop paying them you will keep them all? I have never bought a movie through Prime but I have some audio books which all work fine despite me no longer paying Audible.

All in all it seems like this guy has come up with some hypothesis of their master plan but the reality is that switching costs are low and Amazon doesn't hold a monopoly in any tangible way.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#137

Post by Telaneo »

lkramer wrote: post #82
Foorack wrote: post #77

I haven't read the article, but as a Swede I am stunned by the title. I shop from Amazon a couple of times per month, with Prime subscription. Delivery is always insanely fast (within 1-2 days), I always get exactly what I ordered, prices are always lowest compared to all competition, returns are convenient and human-free, and the additional Prime Videos is a nice bonus. I am honeslty worried of local Swedish busines…

My take is that it's because there is still competition in Sweden to keep them on their toes. Once they have decimated the Swedish high street, like they have in the UK, they will start cutting costs.

I'm sceptical of Amazon's ability to do this in a country with strong consumer protection laws. If Amazon becomes the default for every online purchase in Sweden, and then enshittify, assuming there aren't other options to fall back on, the pressure will be pretty heavy, while in the US, that pressure basically doesn't exist.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#138

Post by harvey9 »

pfexec wrote: post #111
OutOfHere wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSRs lying has been a serious problem at Amazon and it's astonishing that Amazon hasn't duly addressed it.

[flagged]

Anyone who needs that job to pay their rent is going to follow the script the company gives them.

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#139

Post by OJFord »

madaxe_again wrote: post #98
monegator wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon told me to go hang, said I couldn’t return used goods I don't buy it. Don't we have actual consumer protection laws here in europe? We can return anything we bought online in 14 days time, full refund, no questions asked.

That’s the law, yeah - and if the goods are faulty it’s actually up to two years. But this is Amazon - they don’t need to follow consumer protection laws - I think their specific get out is that they’re Amazon Spain, and I’m having stuff shipped to Portugal, and Spanish consumer protection regs (which implement the EU regs) only protect consumers in Spain . That was meta’s get-out, too.

In my experience in the UK, Amazon is better than consumer protection laws, and miles better than other vendors. They won't question or require lots of information etc. to support things in however many years of warranty, or even outside of it.

Not to mention the standard is 30 day returns, more than double the legally mandated 14 for distance selling.

I don't understand why you were even talking to support - if it was clearly defective within half an hour (much less than 30 days) you could have just created a return yourself without talking to anybody?

Re: Way past its prime: how did Amazon get so rubbish?

#140

Post by pfexec »

harvey9 wrote: post #138
pfexec wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Anyone who needs that job to pay their rent is going to follow the script the company gives them.

Well they must give the stateside CSRs a different script because whenever I win the lottery and get an American on the phone it's a night and day difference. Notably they seem capable of solving complex problems without lying or smoke and mirrors.

An actual example, I recently had an issue that while straightforward and not that difficult to solve, was likely "off script". After being handed off between 4 different chat agents, and subsequent phone calls with two different Indians (who lied and made promises that weren't kept), my problem was not solved. At my wits end (and nearly 2.5 hours of my time wasted) I called back one more time. Inexplicably, I got a lady with a Southern accent. She solved my problem in under 10 minutes (and that included the approval she had to get from her supervisor).

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