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Living outside America

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Re: Living outside America

#131

Post by thetabyte »

psykotic wrote: post #50
thetabyte wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening Note: Personal views- Practicing Jewish most of my upbringing, now agnostic by choice "If the Danish prime minister started confessing her belief in a god she'd be laughed out of the room." As an 18 year old American, active in American politics (I've done minor campaigning, father is a US History teacher), this is utterly strange. A politician that was not some denomination of Christianity would be, most lik…

> The concept of God abounds in our Pledge of Allegiance, in our graduation ceremonies, in our political speeches--it is almost universally accepted and above question. You probably know this already, but Yahweh's prominence on the coinage and in the Pledge of Allegiance is a relatively recent phenomenon. It wasn't until 1908 that 'In God We Trust' was mandated on the coinage, and 'under God' wasn't inserted into the…

Yeah, I did (about the 'under God' in the pledge to disassociate ourselves from communists, not about the 'In God We Trust' on coinage actually) thanks to my father really, but that's an excellent point to bring up. Especially when you consider that most people /do not/ know that, and would be shocked or disbelieving if you told it to them.

As to the Founders, whether or not they were religious, the abuse of their legends has gotten old many times already. Many political factions (though the Tea Party are the worst culprits) have misinterpreted, misrepresented, and straight up lied (or worse, not actually known) about their history and beliefs, and used this confusion as a platform for their opinions. It's disgusting.

Re: Living outside America

#132

Post by waterlesscloud »

jchrisa wrote: post #82
thetabyte wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening Note: Personal views- Practicing Jewish most of my upbringing, now agnostic by choice "If the Danish prime minister started confessing her belief in a god she'd be laughed out of the room." As an 18 year old American, active in American politics (I've done minor campaigning, father is a US History teacher), this is utterly strange. A politician that was not some denomination of Christianity would be, most lik…

Rare to find actively religious young people on the West Coast (at least Bay Area / Portland)

In your social circles, at least.

Re: Living outside America

#133

Post by danso »

kruk wrote: post #47
pixie_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I've also spent a few a years living outside the US and while I had a great time it made me realize a lot about all the simple things about living in the US that we don't even realize we have and take for granted. The political stability, the infrastructure, the uniform culture that stretches coast to coast, and just the feeling of being surrounded by the immense wealth of it all. Just last week when I was a…

What culture? American culture, compared to most of Europe and Asia is underdeveloped and shallow. Not to mention, 20% of US citizens are not even native English speakers. All the points you're listing could be more appropriately used to describe Japan.

What in the world is your definition of "culture"? It is not something that is rooted mainly in age, as if a 80 year old could be assumed to have more "culture" that a 30-year-old pioneering artist.

Re: Living outside America

#134

Post by pixie_ »

kruk wrote: post #47
pixie_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I've also spent a few a years living outside the US and while I had a great time it made me realize a lot about all the simple things about living in the US that we don't even realize we have and take for granted. The political stability, the infrastructure, the uniform culture that stretches coast to coast, and just the feeling of being surrounded by the immense wealth of it all. Just last week when I was a…

What culture? American culture, compared to most of Europe and Asia is underdeveloped and shallow. Not to mention, 20% of US citizens are not even native English speakers. All the points you're listing could be more appropriately used to describe Japan.

There is a very, very strong culture in america you probably don't realize how apart of it you are until you leave america. There are so many factors that bind us from our shared media, history, education, values, expectations, how we look at the rest of the world and how we view ourselves in relation to it. It's even more amusing when you travel around and see so many cultures trying to emulate different facets of american life, but never getting it right. Maybe if you've never left america you think there's 'no culture' because it's hard to notice when you're surrounded by it. Maybe you don't appreciate the fact you can travel 3,000 miles to the opposite coast and instantly relate to people living there. Try doing that anywhere else in the world. Oh and high immigation and non-native speakers is also very american.

Re: Living outside America

#135

Post by waterlesscloud »

pixie_ wrote: post #11
rdl wrote: post #3

Living and traveling outside the US (Europe, Middle East, Asia) for ~15 years convinced me of the inherent superiority of the US (culturally, economically, etc.). Our government is broken, but generally the US lets problems get really inefficiently bad, then overcorrects, so I hope that will happen in the next 20 years. The threats to the US are not other countries getting better than us, but the decline of the natio…

I agree. I've also spent a few a years living outside the US and while I had a great time it made me realize a lot about all the simple things about living in the US that we don't even realize we have and take for granted. The political stability, the infrastructure, the uniform culture that stretches coast to coast, and just the feeling of being surrounded by the immense wealth of it all. Just last week when I was a…

There's a great scene in Oliver Stone's movie "Heaven And Earth", where the refugee from the Viet Nam war goes into an American supermarket for the first time, and it's just overwhelming.

Haven't seen a supermarket the same way since.

Re: Living outside America

#136

Post by creamyhorror »

rdl wrote: post #3

Living and traveling outside the US (Europe, Middle East, Asia) for ~15 years convinced me of the inherent superiority of the US (culturally, economically, etc.). Our government is broken, but generally the US lets problems get really inefficiently bad, then overcorrects, so I hope that will happen in the next 20 years. The threats to the US are not other countries getting better than us, but the decline of the natio…

> Living and traveling outside the US (Europe, Middle East, Asia) for ~15 years convinced me of the inherent superiority of the US (culturally, economically, etc.).

You say this without any qualifications, when what you seem to mean is "superior for starting a tech business". That's a pretty major qualification to leave out.

It's obvious that most of the computer revolution was driven by the US. The dotcom boom was enabled by the very large American stock markets, and would not have been quite so possible elsewhere. That's undeniable, and I think the world is thankful to the leading lights in the US behind the innovations we enjoy today.

I went to the US as an undergrad hoping to experience the promises of its culture and energy. I learnt a lot from my time there, but in fact my opinion of the US moderated somewhat. Previously I thought it was the land of opportunity, creativity and liberty; after, I realised it also had deep problems with the way things ran (healthcare system, inequality and social distrust, deadlocked government). (I never lived on the West Coast - only visited.)

After returning to Asia from the US, I thought I'd prefer living in Canada, for easy access to the American market as well the Canadian healthcare system.

Another aspect is, it's simply not "done" in my home country (and I assume most other countries) to publicly label yourself as "the best". That's something I noticed among some Americans, and I can't agree with it. Where I'm from, there's always something to learn from someone else, and someone to build better relationships with. Calling yourself "the greatest nation on Earth" or the like smacks of arrogance, even if it could be argued to be true for some value of "greatest". Arrogance is, I suspect, why much anti-American sentiment exists.

Re: Living outside America

#137

Post by mc32 »

ashishgandhi wrote: post #43
sneak wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's something to the not being born there that helps. #1 was a huge revelation to me (I'd like to think I'm observant and well-informed), and continues to be so to Americans I've had the opportunity to tour-guide for. I'm really curious where it comes from. Perhaps because of the ubiquity of American mass-media? Every European knows the New York skyline and what "NYPD" and "FBI" mean. How many Americans c…

> How many Americans can spot the difference between Hong Kong and Seoul, or know what "BKA" stands for? That only means American culture is more exported than others in many forms like movies, TV shows, etc. People like to watch American shows, American that, American this, etc. If Honk Kong and Seoul were able to export their culture as effectively you'll know about them too. A lot of people know about Paris and Ca…

>If Honk Kong and Seoul were able to export...

This is true and it's true in SEAsia. In Japan, SK culture has pervaded TV and entertainment, moreso than American Entertainment. Go to Taipei and you can see the evidence of Japanese culture (well, this is two-pronged, Japanese legacy on the island as well as youth culture) along with SK culture. The only place American culture might have the upper hand in SEAsia is in blockbuster movies --but that's a minority of movies shown or seen.

In Africa, lots of the entertainment, while English language, is Nigerian English with Nigerian TV and music being very influential.

Re: Living outside America

#138

Post by excuse-me »

thetabyte wrote: post #130
excuse-me wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GDP might be a proxy for education here. A graph of educational standards vs religion might be even more revealing

You also have to consider that there is a possible correlation between being poor and being religious. As bad as that may sound, religion brings hope to a lot of people who do not have many other sources of it.

But Karl, surely the masses can afford genuine opiates now that we have boosted the supply so effectively ?

Re: Living outside America

#139

Post by mc32 »

why-el wrote: post #99
ralfn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. How can the US be exporting more culture than any other country, yet, have less of it? Something doesnt add up. There is lots of influencal US culture. From rap to mcdonalds. We may look down upon it now, but all of tat will age into cherished cultural relics when they stop being relevant. I think the point the OP wanted to make, is that the US has less dead culture, compared to say Europe.

Can you elaborate on what aspects of European culture you think are dead?

I'm guessing the dead is as in deadweight --not contributory. For example, royalty and its traditions, its cultural baggage. The British still endure what's called "the Norman yoke". That is the Normas took over a culture and imposed it on the locals. This resulted in a sharp divide between the rulers (initially foreign royals) and locals (now landless and considered lower class commoners). This division is entrenched in British culture to this day.

Re: Living outside America

#140

Post by samfoo »

pg wrote: post #105
samfoo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but they're also comparatively unsophisticated. Aside from the obvious ambiguities of what defines sophistication of a culture: It feels like you're begging the question to me. "Americans are unsophisticated because they're a young culture so they're unsophisticated..." Moreover I think suggesting that an entire culture is full of optimism and youth because it's only…

I didn't have a because in there. What I said was that Americans seem unsophisticated but energetic and optimistic, and that since all those qualities are associated with youth, you could compress them into one statement by saying American culture felt young. Nor did I say that American culture has this quality of youthfulness because the US is a comparatively young country. In fact that seems unlikely to be the caus…

I see your point, re-reading your original post. The phrase "young culture", to me, carries a heavy emphasis of literal age.

Ultimately -- and semantic quibbling aside -- I think you're right that American culture is (and by extension, typical Americans are) particularly energetic and optimistic.

I'm not sure I agree with unsophisticated, unless you mean "less formal".

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