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Living outside America

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Re: Living outside America

#81

Post by ralfn »

antidaily wrote: post #68
mberning wrote: post #64

Just wrapping up a several weeks trip to Europe (London, Cologne, Edinburgh) as we speak. I think I'm having the opposite observation. Western cultures have so much in common it has actually been surprising to me. I always expected to be amazed by the differences, but if you throw out all of the superficial stuff the set of appreciable differences is rather smaller. As for his specific points 1. I have no idea how so…

I wonder if more Americans would travel through Europe if they knew how easy it is. EVERYBODY speaks English. And yet, you still get to experience the cultures and augment your worldview a bit.

Not really. You can talk in English with any dutch citizen, but without being able to read our books, watch our tv, hear us talk, you dont really get a clue.

What you get is a not a first hand view, but a 2nd hand view, from the worst observer possibe.

Im pretty sure, that language is key to any culture. And because of that Americans, even when they travel, will have less understanding of the culture, than the natives have of the states, simply because we can actually read your constitution, watch your daily show, know your founders and the culture that shspes your idenity.

Want to learn about the world? Dont travel! Learn a language.

Re: Living outside America

#82

Post by jchrisa »

thetabyte wrote: post #20
mixmax wrote: post #9

This is a great article, and as a European I can relate to all of his points. Here are some comments from the other side of the pond; they're of course my personal opinion but I think they're somewhat representative of the European view. I don’t view the USA as the center of the world - i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday. If you take a historical perspective this is how many empires fall…

Opening Note: Personal views- Practicing Jewish most of my upbringing, now agnostic by choice "If the Danish prime minister started confessing her belief in a god she'd be laughed out of the room." As an 18 year old American, active in American politics (I've done minor campaigning, father is a US History teacher), this is utterly strange. A politician that was not some denomination of Christianity would be, most lik…

Rare to find actively religious young people on the West Coast (at least Bay Area / Portland)

Re: Living outside America

#83

Post by samfoo »

pg wrote: post #22

I've been able to do the first 3 without leaving (perhaps because I wasn't born here), and number 4 doesn't seem so certain. What I noticed about living outside America when I did it later as an adult was that it made it clearer what was distinctive about the US. Many of the distinctive things I noticed could be summed up by describing America as a young culture. Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but t…

> Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but they're also comparatively unsophisticated.

Aside from the obvious ambiguities of what defines sophistication of a culture: It feels like you're begging the question to me. "Americans are unsophisticated because they're a young culture so they're unsophisticated..."

Moreover I think suggesting that an entire culture is full of optimism and youth because it's only 300 some-odd years old strikes me quite sweeping. The modern nation state is barely as old, and it's not as if Americans don't have some cultural heritage that goes back much further than that.

Re: Living outside America

#84

Post by fecklessyouth »

il wrote: post #28
citricsquid wrote: post #10

> I stopped calling myself a Christian Specific to this point as someone that has lived in England forever I find it really strange how on the reddit atheism subreddit all the (American) posters act as if they're persecuted for their Atheism whereas in England religion is just something people do in private if they do it at all, it's hard for me to understand the way r/atheism posters perceive their persecution, but…

Religion seems to be much more pervasisve in public policy in America than anywhere else. 40% of voters believe the Rapture/end of the world will occur in their lifetime. This is unprecendented in any secular country, and it affects all spheres of life. Why worry about global warming when Jesus is going to come back and fix everything in a few years anyway?

That's a pretty high percentage. Link?

Re: Living outside America

#85

Post by antidaily »

ralfn wrote: post #81
antidaily wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if more Americans would travel through Europe if they knew how easy it is. EVERYBODY speaks English. And yet, you still get to experience the cultures and augment your worldview a bit.

Not really. You can talk in English with any dutch citizen, but without being able to read our books, watch our tv, hear us talk, you dont really get a clue. What you get is a not a first hand view, but a 2nd hand view, from the worst observer possibe. Im pretty sure, that language is key to any culture. And because of that Americans, even when they travel, will have less understanding of the culture, than the native…

I saw your TV. It was dubbed Simpsons and porn at night. It was great!

I don't think my mediocre-to-decent French helped me appreciate France any more, but if you say so.

Re: Living outside America

#86

Post by pawelwentpawel »

antidaily wrote: post #68
mberning wrote: post #64

Just wrapping up a several weeks trip to Europe (London, Cologne, Edinburgh) as we speak. I think I'm having the opposite observation. Western cultures have so much in common it has actually been surprising to me. I always expected to be amazed by the differences, but if you throw out all of the superficial stuff the set of appreciable differences is rather smaller. As for his specific points 1. I have no idea how so…

I wonder if more Americans would travel through Europe if they knew how easy it is. EVERYBODY speaks English. And yet, you still get to experience the cultures and augment your worldview a bit.

A lot of people do speak English. Some probably, even though not from UK, on a native level. Yet still, coming to Europe and demanding people to speak English is not the way to go. I don't say that you have to be proficient in all european languages but at least an attempt of communication is a sign of respect. I've seen situations when english-speakers were following a strategy based just on shouting louder in their own language. Certainly not the way to experience the cultures and augment your worldview.

Re: Living outside America

#87

Post by mixmax »

spindritf wrote: post #78
mixmax wrote: post #9

This is a great article, and as a European I can relate to all of his points. Here are some comments from the other side of the pond; they're of course my personal opinion but I think they're somewhat representative of the European view. I don’t view the USA as the center of the world - i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday. If you take a historical perspective this is how many empires fall…

> i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday And yet most of us are right now using computers designed in America, with an operating system written in America, posting on an American website. How is the USA not the centre of the world? From jeans to Katy Perry, from Google to McDonald's -- Americans totally dominated both the culture and the business. If I turn on the tv right now, I will have t…

I'm writing this on a computer produced in China, running an operating systeem developed by a Finn, delivered to you via the world wide web which comes from CERN.

Re: Living outside America

#88

Post by spindritf »

mixmax wrote: post #87
spindritf wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday And yet most of us are right now using computers designed in America, with an operating system written in America, posting on an American website. How is the USA not the centre of the world? From jeans to Katy Perry, from Google to McDonald's -- Americans totally dominated both the culture and the business. If I turn on the tv right now, I will have t…

I'm writing this on a computer produced in China, running an operating systeem developed by a Finn, delivered to you via the world wide web which comes from CERN.

Yeah, and even the Finn moved to the States.

Re: Living outside America

#89

Post by ralfn »

antidaily wrote: post #85
ralfn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. You can talk in English with any dutch citizen, but without being able to read our books, watch our tv, hear us talk, you dont really get a clue. What you get is a not a first hand view, but a 2nd hand view, from the worst observer possibe. Im pretty sure, that language is key to any culture. And because of that Americans, even when they travel, will have less understanding of the culture, than the native…

I saw your TV. It was dubbed Simpsons and porn at night. It was great! I don't think my mediocre-to-decent French helped me appreciate France any more, but if you say so.

But thats not what shapes our culture. To understand a country you have to see how it handles its debates, how it reports its news.

Here's a reasonable question: were you able to notice the quality of the poltical debate? Its nothing special within Europe, but the kind of nonsense that passes for a polticsl debate in the states is quite a contrast.

Re: Living outside America

#90

Post by ralfn »

antidaily wrote: post #85
ralfn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. You can talk in English with any dutch citizen, but without being able to read our books, watch our tv, hear us talk, you dont really get a clue. What you get is a not a first hand view, but a 2nd hand view, from the worst observer possibe. Im pretty sure, that language is key to any culture. And because of that Americans, even when they travel, will have less understanding of the culture, than the native…

I saw your TV. It was dubbed Simpsons and porn at night. It was great! I don't think my mediocre-to-decent French helped me appreciate France any more, but if you say so.

Ah, you learned a little french! Good. Have you read or listened to, for example Brel?
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