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Living outside America

ryancarson.com

101–110 of 216 posts

Re: Living outside America

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening Note: Personal views- Practicing Jewish most of my upbringing, now agnostic by choice "If the Danish prime minister started confessing her belief in a god she'd be laughed out of the room." As an 18 year old American, active in American politics (I've done minor campaigning, father is a US History teacher), this is utterly strange. A politician that was not some denomination of Christianity would be, most lik…

> The concept of God abounds in our Pledge of Allegiance, in our graduation ceremonies, in our political speeches--it is almost universally accepted and above question. You probably know this already, but Yahweh's prominence on the coinage and in the Pledge of Allegiance is a relatively recent phenomenon. It wasn't until 1908 that 'In God We Trust' was mandated on the coinage, and 'under God' wasn't inserted into the…

>"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion."

Except perhaps religion meddling with the national government?

Re: Living outside America

#102
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? That's actually very interesting, if you have source material for that I'd love to see it. Though I wonder if it's biased by very religious middle eastern states lacking in natural resources other than oil (which benefits a very small group).

Here's a graph: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/137/religion-god-theology/... Looking at it I noticed that I'm from one of the least religious countries in the world (Denmark).

I think GDP might be a proxy for education here. A graph of educational standards vs religion might be even more revealing

Re: Living outside America

#103
post #31
post #22

I've been able to do the first 3 without leaving (perhaps because I wasn't born here), and number 4 doesn't seem so certain. What I noticed about living outside America when I did it later as an adult was that it made it clearer what was distinctive about the US. Many of the distinctive things I noticed could be summed up by describing America as a young culture. Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but t…

I think there's something to the not being born there that helps. #1 was a huge revelation to me (I'd like to think I'm observant and well-informed), and continues to be so to Americans I've had the opportunity to tour-guide for. I'm really curious where it comes from. Perhaps because of the ubiquity of American mass-media? Every European knows the New York skyline and what "NYPD" and "FBI" mean. How many Americans c…

There are only 26^3 TLAs, so all of them get overloaded. I suspect you are thinking of BKA = Bundeskriminalamt, because you just mentioned the FBI.

As for Hong Kong vs Seoul, I would look for boxy Korean characters in Seoul and various Chinese forms in HK.

I'm a USAn who has never been to Germany, Korea, or Hong Kong... but I read a lot, and pay attention. Most smart people do both of those things. I suspect it's part of the definition of "smart" these days.

Re: Living outside America

#104
post #9

This is a great article, and as a European I can relate to all of his points. Here are some comments from the other side of the pond; they're of course my personal opinion but I think they're somewhat representative of the European view. I don’t view the USA as the center of the world - i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday. If you take a historical perspective this is how many empires fall…

An interesting and relatively recent example of this is that ex-UK Prime Minister Tony Blair didnt publicly announce his intention of converting to Catholicism until he left office.

That US presidents have to lie and say that the talk to God all the time and follow his advice - and European national leaders have to lie and say that they don't is perhaps the main cultural difference

( with the possible exception of the Pope )

Re: Living outside America

#105
post #83
post #22

I've been able to do the first 3 without leaving (perhaps because I wasn't born here), and number 4 doesn't seem so certain. What I noticed about living outside America when I did it later as an adult was that it made it clearer what was distinctive about the US. Many of the distinctive things I noticed could be summed up by describing America as a young culture. Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but t…

> Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but they're also comparatively unsophisticated. Aside from the obvious ambiguities of what defines sophistication of a culture: It feels like you're begging the question to me. "Americans are unsophisticated because they're a young culture so they're unsophisticated..." Moreover I think suggesting that an entire culture is full of optimism and youth because it's only…

I didn't have a because in there. What I said was that Americans seem unsophisticated but energetic and optimistic, and that since all those qualities are associated with youth, you could compress them into one statement by saying American culture felt young.

Nor did I say that American culture has this quality of youthfulness because the US is a comparatively young country. In fact that seems unlikely to be the cause, because there are younger countries that don't have it.

Re: Living outside America

#106
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening Note: Personal views- Practicing Jewish most of my upbringing, now agnostic by choice "If the Danish prime minister started confessing her belief in a god she'd be laughed out of the room." As an 18 year old American, active in American politics (I've done minor campaigning, father is a US History teacher), this is utterly strange. A politician that was not some denomination of Christianity would be, most lik…

As an interesting aside, there's a strong negative correlation between GDP per capita and religion; the richer a country is the less religious it is. America is the exception that sticks out like a sore thumb on a graph.

[deleted]

Re: Living outside America

#107
post #95
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should also be noted that in most quality of life indexes, cities in the US rank far below many of those in Europe, Canada, and Australia... Having personally lived in two of the most recently top-ranked cities (Vancouver and now Melbourne) I'd say the indexes are mostly bogus. Evidently something as important to quality of life as the weather isn't much of a factor given that it rains for most of the year in Va…

It's true that in the US, rich people are really rich . But would he have been able to afford to study in the US? The science says that social mobility is much higher in other countries like Denmark than in the US: > Several studies have been made comparing social mobility between developed countries. One such study (“Do Poor Children Become Poor Adults?")[5][15][16] found that of nine developed countries, the United…

You have to be a little careful with the social mobility stats. Countries with a very equal society score very high on these scales - because they really map "am I rich and were my parents were rich". Countries where everyone is happily in the middle (eg scandanvia) show low correlation with your parents income and that counts as high social mobility - when in fact it's just low mobility for everyone.

Countries with a high immigrant population in the preceding generation score very high - just because the first wave of immigrants probably did relatively badly compared to the average population, so if their kids do average that looks like high mobility

Re: Living outside America

#108
This is a tough topic with the potential for heated diametrically-opposed opinions.

I too have had the experience of living a big chunk of my life outside the US, about 18 years, between South America (mostly Argentina) and Europe. I've also split my time in the US between east and west coast.

When abroad I have at times felt embarrassed to call myself an American. Well, first of all, I hate the use of the term "American" because, well, we don't own the entire continent. I feels utterly ignorant to say "I am an American". In the UK at least you can say that you are a "Yank" and it is more accurate. Anyhow, this might be a minor point. Just because it is convenient I'll continue to use the ignorant reference and call myself an "American" in this post.

Yes, Americans are fat and ignorant. At least that's a big part of what we project. Some of it has to do with how egocentric we tend to be. I have met Americans that have a hard time placing countries --much less cities-- on the globe. You often hear things like "I can't spell" or "I am not good at math". I can't recall ever hearing such expressions in other countries. If you can't spell your own language or handle high-school level math you are actually looked down upon in a lot of cultures. Just one step above an idiot. It really sounds moronic from the vantage point of other cultures. So, be aware of this fact. While it might seem funny to you to make a comment like that, the other person could be thinking that you are a "burro".

I am the last person to propose that government get involved in directing behavior through taxation and the like. I've posted before on the whole healthcare law mess. However, there is one tax credit that I could probably get behind in a serious way if it was implemented correctly: A tax incentive to have Americans travel abroad with some frequency.

I truly believe that we would fix a LOT of problems both here and elsewhere if the average US citizen had a more accurate world view. In Europe it is easy to travel from culture to culture. It's just a train ride away and it can be really cheap. Here in the US it is harder and far more costly. It is logical that most would simply travel a few hundred miles away within our country than get on a plane and see other shores. An intelligently-done tax credit to promote foreign travel could do wonders in this area. We need people to travel out of the country a few times (not just once) during their lifetime to gain perspective and learn.

If the average American understood what the world looks like on the outside and, perhaps more importantly, what the US looks like when looking-in, they would behave differently and vote differently. We would be a different country.

The topic of religion in the US is also a tough one. I, like most, grew up in a religious environment and later rejected it. As an atheist now I can't help but see some of what goes on with all religions as nothing less than lunacy. A collectively accepted state of dementia. A tsunami kills hundreds of thousands of people and the religious still can't logically look at the gaping holes in their demented belief system. At one point you'd hope that someone would rationalize that if their god truly listened to their prayers and helped their football team win a game while allowing someone to get killed or raped across town, or someone else half beaten to death at the stadium parking lot or hundreds of thousands of of people die in an earthquake...well, something ain't right.

Anyhow, the fact that American politics is so overly loaded with the need to express devotion, dedication and history with one religion, Christianity, is of great concern to those of us who can look at things from a different plane of thought.

From outside our country this looks ignorant and, well, ridiculous.

There are so many consequences to having religion as a dominant force in politics. Gay rights and scientific research are two examples that come to mind. It is personally offensive to me --not gay-- to hear believers who consider the gay to be unholy abominations (and worst). When you try to explain that being gay is a genetic mutation (not a pejorative) that is no different from having blue eyes they laugh at you. That's when the topic of evolution often comes-up. It is personally offensive to me that they challenge evolution as though anything they could offer is even remotely relevant to the conversation. You try to explain that the mechanism for evolution is the very reason that their kids don't look like perfect clones of each other, and they come up with counter-reasons that one couldn't even imagine. And, when religion mixes with politics you have things like the drive to teach "creationism" to our kids. Again, from many distant shores this looks nothing less than retarded. And they are right.

A lot of the above is very negative. Here's the good news: There is a TON that is great about this country and this people. We, with all of our faults, manage to have created a society that is orderly and, for the most part, law-driven. Just ask an Argentinian about how their crazy governments and rampant corruption at all levels has, effectively, destroyed what used to be a very nice country. In the US we disagree. And, yes, polarization is horrible right now, but we somehow manage to run things reasonably well.

There's also a lot of creativity in this land. There are cultures that have huge issues with this. Both Europe and Asia have examples of this effect. A lot of the behaviors and culture that the US promotes internally lead to finding diamonds in the rough and allowing them to shine through.

Yes, here you can be nobody and rise to be anything and anyone you can dream of becoming. And that's why the US has led the world in a technical and, yes, cultural revolution that has had no equal. I am proud of being an American, warts and all. I strive to be above average and make sure that my kids develop a world view and cross cultural view from the get go. I also respect other cultures and understand that nearly everyone who is positive in the world has something valuable to offer. I could go on, but that's probably enough of a brain dump on this topic.

Re: Living outside America

#109

To really understand America, you must not only live in it, but also live outside it. Note: I am from the USA, and "we" or "our" refers to us Americans. I spent 3 years abroad, recently returning to the USA this summer, and I will try to outline some of what I learned, although it is somewhat difficult as this knowledge has become ingrained in me and obvious as to seem to require no explanation. - English as lingua f…

> the effectiveness of USA institutions: legal system, courts, law enforcement, Congress, media, higher education Good governance and higher civilization aren't created overnight

Couldn't you have just copied them from Britain and France - wouldn't that have been easier ?

Re: Living outside America

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been an out American for 7 years now, first two in Switzerland, the last 5 in China. I still think America has a lot going for it. Switzerland is efficient and fair, but something is missing because of restrained competition and protectionism. China is the exact opposite, and its hard to believe the system works at all. For whatever troubles America has, our system still works and is rather effective; no one is…

Most Americans believe in the provincial caricatures of the other cultural regions of the US with which they have no experience. It is not just other countries, Americans are like that in their own country. And in fairness, the US is a large, populous country with diverse regional histories. Most Americans would probably be very surprised to learn that the "sagebrush culture" (red) states are the least religious or t…

Or how Idaho is an algmation of LDS teetotalers, survivalist libertarians, and extremely liberal hippies! But even the different between Seattle and Spokane (Washington's first and second largest urban areas) is pretty extreme.

My dad worked in nuclear, so I moved around a lot when I was a kid: Tricities Washington (sagebrush country), Toledo Ohio, Somewhere (Pennsville) New Jersey on the tristate border, Vicksburg Mississippi, and finally back to the PNW (Seattle). Actually, many Americans are fairly mobile, much more so than their European counterparts. Its not unusual to meet others like me who moved around a lot as kids (and are still moving, just not in the states anymore).

General American ignorance is quite a myth, though I'm sure their are many stationary Americans, there are just as many Americans who've lived everywhere.

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