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Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

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Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#131

Post by ethanbond »

master-lincoln wrote: post #102
dizzi90 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have sold a half-dozen Cronus Zen adapters Don't do that, please. Sell drugs or something, less damaging to society.

How is cheating in video games hurting society? I would assume it drives people off playing multiplayer games, but I fail to see how this would be bad for society.

Cheating in anything is bad for society, mostly because it reinforces cheaters’ false perception that “everyone is cheating”

(FWIW I don’t think it’s worse than [some] drugs and I doubt GP does either)

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#132

Post by mountainb »

permo-w wrote: post #127
baby wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should they just give up on cheating devices?

in the hundreds of hours I've played of multiplayer console FPSs, which are what these controllers are marketed towards[1], I think I saw a player with a modded controller once. yes they got an advantage from it, but FPSs are mostly about how fast you can aim not how fast you can shoot, so it wasn't exactly game-breaking also in Call of Duty at least, often semi-auto fire rates are capped at a human level anyway even…

So, it is possible that the manufacturers are infringing in some way, shape, or form, but collecting a judgment on it or enforcing an injunction against a Chinese manufacturer or marketplace is not going to go anywhere.

With software cheats, the lawsuits are usually over some kind of DMCA copyright protection circumvention, tortious interference, and the various generic unfair competition claims. For controller stuff and in certain software claims there might also be some patent issues there to raise in addition to those.

Generally, the guys operating out of China etc. are not going to care that much because only their US-based accounts are going to be at the mercy of US courts. It is not even that straightforward to enforce US judgements in EU countries for various reasons (e.g. in Germany, to enforce the judgment, Germany must have close analogue of the underlying claim under its own law, and the German courts do not construe this liberally).

I disagree that this is not a big problem. The cheat situation in online gaming probably worse now than it has ever been because the cheat providers have really succeeded in making them easy to use and access for the average user. IMO the companies brought it on themselves to some extent by breaking up the old decentralized server model, which was harder to use, but also was able to take advantage of massive numbers of volunteer moderators to regulate cheating and other bad behavior.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#133

Post by Libcat99 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #79
AustinDev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are most definitely doing this to combat cheaters. I tried out Cronus + KBM on my friend's Xbox S and it was comical. I had aim assist, no recoil and a keyboard and mouse. I was running 100:3 K:D on COD:MW2. If you don't think cheating is a big part of the reason you've never played console games competitively.

That's the problem though: pampering to competitive gamers ruins the experience for the vast majority of people, who just want to, you know, enjoy a game . Unfortunately, competitive gamers are the only ones that matter - they're the cash cows of this part of the industry, which now focuses on creating as many such players as they can, and milking them for all they're worth. Consider how cheating was handled back bef…

This is why I largely play single player games, or games at least with the option of bots.

I booted up the computer to take a break from the assholes, not to get shot by them.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#134

Post by jeegsy »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #79
AustinDev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are most definitely doing this to combat cheaters. I tried out Cronus + KBM on my friend's Xbox S and it was comical. I had aim assist, no recoil and a keyboard and mouse. I was running 100:3 K:D on COD:MW2. If you don't think cheating is a big part of the reason you've never played console games competitively.

That's the problem though: pampering to competitive gamers ruins the experience for the vast majority of people, who just want to, you know, enjoy a game . Unfortunately, competitive gamers are the only ones that matter - they're the cash cows of this part of the industry, which now focuses on creating as many such players as they can, and milking them for all they're worth. Consider how cheating was handled back bef…

I really miss local multiplayer. Competitive gaming was other kids on your block. Good times, low stakes.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#135

Post by permo-w »

mountainb wrote: post #132
permo-w wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the hundreds of hours I've played of multiplayer console FPSs, which are what these controllers are marketed towards[1], I think I saw a player with a modded controller once. yes they got an advantage from it, but FPSs are mostly about how fast you can aim not how fast you can shoot, so it wasn't exactly game-breaking also in Call of Duty at least, often semi-auto fire rates are capped at a human level anyway even…

So, it is possible that the manufacturers are infringing in some way, shape, or form, but collecting a judgment on it or enforcing an injunction against a Chinese manufacturer or marketplace is not going to go anywhere. With software cheats, the lawsuits are usually over some kind of DMCA copyright protection circumvention, tortious interference, and the various generic unfair competition claims. For controller stuff…

>I disagree that this is not a big problem. The cheat situation in online gaming probably worse now than it has ever been

in PC gaming, sure. for software cheats, sure. but I'm not talking about either of those things. I'm talking about modded console controllers, which is the focus of this thread

also, it's not really true that these sellers are outside of the range of copyright laws. while the specific sellers may well be, aliexpress, temu, wish, etc as platforms are all very much exposed to Western courts

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#136

Post by joshuaissac »

qalmakka wrote: post #95
mschuster91 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you can google for the error code, instead of having to search for a textual phrase and wade through countless pages of not-at-all-related crap.

printing (errc, strerror(errc)) instead of just `errc` would have costed them literally 0 seconds and would have helped a lot. Instead they removed everything but error codes and "Oops :(" I get better error messages from the firmware of obscure embedded chips than from Microsoft Windows

> Instead they removed everything but error codes and "Oops :("

According to the article, they didn't. The pop up has the error code and a descriptive error message. And no "Oops :(".

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#137

Post by ceejayoz »

the-dude wrote: post #122
grishka wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Error codes are specific and can be looked up. The modern trend of "uwu we fucky-wucked up" cutesy error messages with no details whatsoever is inexcusable because of how much harder it makes to troubleshoot the error.

That is actually acknowledging responsibility. Much more often I see : Oops, something went wrong

Or “you broke Reddit” style, where that’s never the case.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#138

Post by 0dayz »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #71
lawn wrote: post #68

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience, where you have exclusive games, controllers and digital stores. But its just worse for the customer in every way.

Not every way; you have more control over quality and experience in a closed system. I mean yeah it sucks, but so does spending money on a controller that isn't good enough. edit: I'm reading somewhere else it's to stop cheat enabled controllers. Wouldn't want to play multiplayer games if someone has an unfair advantage like that.

If this was true then Microsoft could've made it so that you gave to have a certified controller.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#139

Post by squigz »

endisneigh wrote: post #111
squigz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes at the expense of legitimate user freedom, and is arguably useless? Probably.

Buy a gaming pc if you want freedom

Good point. I forgot Microsoft doesn't have any stake in that market and would never do anything to infringe PC user freedom.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#140

Post by solardev »

serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

OK, maybe I'm biased here as a PC gamer who frequently uses a controller... but why not just allow both? Some games like Gears of War on Xbox already do this. Others, like Fortnite, offer crossplay and just show a symbol over each player's head.

Do mouse and keyboard players have an advantage? Sure. So do players with bigger TVs or Series X graphics or less worn controllers or the Elite controller. Big deal?

The PC ecosystem has had open control interfaces since forever, whether it's flight sticks or foot pedals or steering wheels or 3d controllers or all of the above. Both in coop and competitive games, people use whatever input devices they like (and can afford). Somehow the ecosystem hasn't collapsed.

I love my Xbox controller, but it's simply an inferior input for shooters. It's superior in many other genres (action RPGs, driving and flight sims, arcade battles, side scrollers). It all evens out.

I don't get the big deal here. Why purposefully handicap your player base instead of letting them use whatever they want?

And autofire... eh, seems like a non issue. Why not just give the weapons a max semi auto fire rate?

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