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Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

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Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#121

Post by realusername »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #75
ThatPlayer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were trying to combat cheaters, they wouldn't have released an official controller that allows generic, 3rd party, unauthenticated inputs: the Xbox Adaptive Controller. It would be pretty trivial to hook up a Pi Pico through the jacks and USB ports to be able to make a KBM adapter like that. There just hasn't been a point making such a device when the xim/cronus works fine. It might not even need the jacks, a…

"Pretty trivial" but only for the small percentage of people that are tech minded like that and who can be bothered; it's not an issue, not compared to laypeople being able to buy an off the shelf ready to use product.

Those off the shelf ready to use cheating products will still be there, they are just going to use a modified xbox controller instead of a third-party one because that's what microsoft allows.

The difference is Microsoft will now get more money out of the cheating products than before, not sure that sounds the right incentive but that's what is going to happen.

Those things cannot be fixed with software.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#122

Post by the-dude »

grishka wrote: post #112
qalmakka wrote: post #80

> players have been encountering error “0x82d60002” OT: Microsoft should be banned by decree from showing naked error codes to people, I've been fighting them for decades now

Error codes are specific and can be looked up. The modern trend of "uwu we fucky-wucked up" cutesy error messages with no details whatsoever is inexcusable because of how much harder it makes to troubleshoot the error.

That is actually acknowledging responsibility.

Much more often I see : Oops, something went wrong

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#123

Post by jeroenhd »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #75
ThatPlayer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were trying to combat cheaters, they wouldn't have released an official controller that allows generic, 3rd party, unauthenticated inputs: the Xbox Adaptive Controller. It would be pretty trivial to hook up a Pi Pico through the jacks and USB ports to be able to make a KBM adapter like that. There just hasn't been a point making such a device when the xim/cronus works fine. It might not even need the jacks, a…

"Pretty trivial" but only for the small percentage of people that are tech minded like that and who can be bothered; it's not an issue, not compared to laypeople being able to buy an off the shelf ready to use product.

If this ban affects cheaters at all (after the next firmware update), the next Chronus could very well be a little box with a bunch of colour coded wires that you plug into an Xbox accessibility controller. All the cheater logic ("no recoil", mouse like precision on the analog sticks) would still work perfectly.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#124

Post by DarkmSparks »

Pretty sure this breaks lots of consumer laws in europe. Not sure where the US is up to with its consumer protection (nowehere?), But if there is anything nice to be said about the crankies in Brussels it's that they come down hard on this behaviour.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#125

Post by ryanklee »

the-dude wrote: post #122
grishka wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Error codes are specific and can be looked up. The modern trend of "uwu we fucky-wucked up" cutesy error messages with no details whatsoever is inexcusable because of how much harder it makes to troubleshoot the error.

That is actually acknowledging responsibility. Much more often I see : Oops, something went wrong

Who cares about acknowledging responsibility in this instance. Isn't the point to provide useful information so as to fix the problem?

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#126

Post by izacus »

lawn wrote: post #106
izacus wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of Windows games block Steam Deck linux distro to "preserve experience" and "prevent cheating".

Afaik this isn't true. What some games have is a particularly invasive anti-cheat that's not supported on Proton. But it's not targeting Steam Deck in particular, it's just a side-effect.

What's not true? That games block open hardware with excuse of cheating prevention just like Microsoft blocks other hardware with same excuse on Xbox?

That's trivially verifiable.

For end user it makes no different whether it's a side effect or not.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#127

Post by permo-w »

baby wrote: post #92
serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

So should they just give up on cheating devices?

in the hundreds of hours I've played of multiplayer console FPSs, which are what these controllers are marketed towards[1], I think I saw a player with a modded controller once. yes they got an advantage from it, but FPSs are mostly about how fast you can aim not how fast you can shoot, so it wasn't exactly game-breaking

also in Call of Duty at least, often semi-auto fire rates are capped at a human level anyway

even further, as far as I can see, you can't buy one of these controllers cheaply direct from china as you might expect to. from searching aliexpress and temu, I can only see a chipset for sale. it looks like your only option is to build one yourself or buy one custom built from a specialist site, but neither option is cheap and easy

IANAL so I could be wrong about this, but I'm reasonably sure third party controller vendors operate in a somewhat legally grey area and could be exposing themselves to a nasty lawsuit if Microsoft or Sony took exception to them, which mitigates the problem

basically it's barely a problem and this kind of action from microsoft is classic "product in decline" behaviour

[1] - https://megamodz.com/instructions/ps4/mods

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#128

Post by monocasa »

rvnx wrote: post #42
AustinDev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are most definitely doing this to combat cheaters. I tried out Cronus + KBM on my friend's Xbox S and it was comical. I had aim assist, no recoil and a keyboard and mouse. I was running 100:3 K:D on COD:MW2. If you don't think cheating is a big part of the reason you've never played console games competitively.

I wonder what popular Twitch streamers are going to do once their Cronus Zen is detected.

But a new one that'll be built around an official controller, or respond correctly to whatever crypto they're using?

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#129

Post by ethanbond »

_xivi wrote: post #104
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every way; you have more control over quality and experience in a closed system. I mean yeah it sucks, but so does spending money on a controller that isn't good enough. edit: I'm reading somewhere else it's to stop cheat enabled controllers. Wouldn't want to play multiplayer games if someone has an unfair advantage like that.

> you have more control over quality and experience > I'm reading somewhere else it's to stop cheat enabled controllers No, it's always been about revenue. I never understand why people take company's word and run with it. Are they actually fooled? Of course, the company won't be blunt and say to the consumer: honestly, we force you to buy from us because it make us more money. This is really weird "solution". They l…

Maybe people don’t like playing video games with cheaters and they do like that their items’ value will plummet to near-zero if they’re stolen.

Maybe these are more relevant to most consumers than abstract complaints on Hackernews about “freedom.”

Have you considered that?

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#130

Post by ethanbond »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #79
AustinDev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are most definitely doing this to combat cheaters. I tried out Cronus + KBM on my friend's Xbox S and it was comical. I had aim assist, no recoil and a keyboard and mouse. I was running 100:3 K:D on COD:MW2. If you don't think cheating is a big part of the reason you've never played console games competitively.

That's the problem though: pampering to competitive gamers ruins the experience for the vast majority of people, who just want to, you know, enjoy a game . Unfortunately, competitive gamers are the only ones that matter - they're the cash cows of this part of the industry, which now focuses on creating as many such players as they can, and milking them for all they're worth. Consider how cheating was handled back bef…

I don’t understand the relevance of this. Are you saying that aggressively targeting cheaters is pampering to wannabe pros or that not aggressively targeting them is pampering wannabe pros?

Another thing that has changed in FPS land is game modes making cheaters WAY more frustrating. It used to be that you get into a lobby, see someone cheating, and could leave and find a new lobby right away. Now with the extremely popular battle royale modes, you don’t encounter the cheater until 20 minutes into a match — via dying in a game mode where dying is “expensive.”

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