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Daddy isn’t coming back

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Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#131

Post by dogleash »

aerovistae wrote: post #35

Not a comment on the story itself, but rather on the postscript which follows it: > If you are struggling to cope or have been affected by anything in this story, please contact the Samaritans in the UK at 116 123 or jo@samaritans.org. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. More information at mind.org.uk, samaritans.org and save.org Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to ca…

>I do wonder if my experience is representative of the norm or not.

When you need help, you find out pretty quickly that institutional support is like bumpers in a bowling alley gutter - it's crude and manufactured. It might keep you on the lane, it sure doesn't help you bowl any better. You also find out that even well-intentioned people aren't much better.

What sucks about suicidality is that everyone is so sterile about it.

Maybe it's that everyone is so on guard against personal connections except from select loved ones. For some people, it might even require talking to someone in a similar headspace just to get on the same page and start talking for real. But I've found out I helped people after the fact, and if I knew I was playing defense going in, I'd probably would have been too scared to say the things I did.

Anyway, here's a nice article, the first half of which explains that failure to communicate better than I ever could: https://eggreport.medium.com/envying-the-dead-skyking-in-mem...

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#132

Post by krumpet »

cyberpunk wrote: post #108
skissane wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a long history of suicidal thoughts, and I’ve even acted on them a few times when I was younger (albeit half-heartedly-if I’d been really serious about it I wouldn’t be here now.) I don’t know if that makes me “at high risk of suicide” but likely people like me are at greater risk than people who don’t have that history. And yet, having kids has actually made it easier for me to resist those thoughts. They hav…

Yep. I'm with you. I was chaos and anarchy before becoming a parent. Now if I lost mine in such an accident say, I'd immediately do it. What would be the point of waiting? Not because they were the only thing stopping me, but because life without them, by now, is incomprehensible. To be honest though, I think suicide is probably the best way to go unless you die instantly. I mean, say I get diagnosed with some horrib…

Alzheimers reduced my father to a lost shell of his former self, but I wouldn't trade any day I ever spent with him for anything. Regardless of the state he was in at the end, he was still my father and I loved every moment we had together. He was the gentlest, kindest, strongest and most thoughtful man I ever knew and that's exactly how I remember him. That's just my own opinion.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#133

Post by downut »

jstx1 wrote: post #9

Knowing that you're at high risk of suicide or have other serious mental health problems is also a good reason to avoid having kids. This isn't directed at the author of the article or their partner; it's how I think when I plan my own life.

I have never been suicidal. I do know, having been through a months long Stage IV cancer watch, which provides a solid view of the terminal medical industrial complex experience, I'll efficiently terminate myself before embarking on that way to go.

That said, I have never understood why people think that having kids has no effect on your mental health. When we had our child, I thought nothing of it; I was in a partnership and that's what the partner wanted. However, after the year or so larval stage, we began to realize that the experience of having a kid, steadily growing, seeing the world through changing eyes, different from your own: it made us different people. I wouldn't have missed the experience for the world, even if the terrible twos do happen and the teen years can be a trial.

It gave us a sense of purpose within our own lives. The very opposite of a screen or a job or a bucket list! We're very different people from the weird/sad, entering their 60s childless couples we know, every single one. I'll be kind and say they seem mostly ruled by a flat emotional narcissism that's... pretty damn boring. I won't say that that never happens to empty nesters; it does. But the childless couples all seem a bit off.

I wouldn't have a kid with the idea that it would solve any mental health problems I might have, just as having a kid seems to never solve any couple's relationship problems. I just point out that your mental health is going to change with a kid, and I'd not rule out for the better.

Even with those caveats, we've watched a lot of children survive divorce, some ugly. Many of those kids turned out superlatively, and for quite a few the divorce seemed to be a kind of positive stimulus. Not recommending divorce! Same with the death of a parent. Children can be incredibly resilient. It's not always about you, is the lesson. A child has a world that is bigger than the parents.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#134

Post by cardosof »

jstx1 wrote: post #9

Knowing that you're at high risk of suicide or have other serious mental health problems is also a good reason to avoid having kids. This isn't directed at the author of the article or their partner; it's how I think when I plan my own life.

I believe the opposite: with more responsibilities life is more meaningful and therefore less prone to suicidal ideation.

Not saying that having children is the cure for severe depression, though - just saying that if you had thought about suicide in the past but are OK today, you shouldn't discard having kids because of that past, kids may even help keeping those things at bay.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#135

Post by kreeben »

cyberpunk wrote: post #126
kreeben wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear myself in you. I went through some shit. But I have two kids and so I would never... Then I got a little better and those daily thoughts became weekly, then monthly and nowadays they are simply not there anymore. Well, sometimes they are but they are now very easily dismissed. I just came here to say that, if god forbid both your kids are taken from you, even then, I would say to you, fucking hell man, don't d…

I mean, I'm a buddhist.. So I'm kind of 'pro universe' but I don't see the point in unnecessary suffering. You're telling me you'd keep on going after losing your family? Years and years of pain and misery? What's the point? There are some things you don't get over.. And even the idea of 'getting over' something like that would make me even sadder than I would have been immediately? Sometimes, kill -9 seems to be a v…

I'm telling you that I _hope_ I would find a way to go on and that I truly hope you would, too. Yes, your life is now empty. But people have their lives ripped apart, all, the fucking, time. Some of them go on living rich and fruitful lives. I would like to think I could strive to become such a person.

The pain a suicidal person feels is like nothing else. I hope that after years of mourning I would pick myself up and feel that pain to its fullest and become an expert pain feeler, because those were the cards that were dealt to me. And I hope that I would find some meaning, again.

However, if I find that I have lung cancer and will inevitably drown in my own mucus, I'm pretty sure about the bullet through my head.

Yay, rainbows!

Heavy shit, this.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#136

Post by gist »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #84
wpietri wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author didn't even write that. The subhed is typically written by an editor. So in addition to being grossly uncharitable, I believe your anger is directed at the wrong person.

I really don’t think it’s grossly uncharitable at all. The details of the editorial process aren’t especially relevant, the article itself is some grim anecdote being used to promote a policy agenda. Regardless of the merit of the position being promoted, it’s intentionally emotionally manipulative, it’s anti-rational and anti-intellectual. It’s also entirely based upon the presupposition that the problem they’re tal…

> I really don’t think it’s grossly uncharitable at all.

I agree and will state that whenever a thread like this is on HN you have to walk on eggshells. The minute mental illness or any sensitive topic (hardship, health, whatever is presented) all the compassion comes out from possibly the same people who would otherwise jump all over someone's point of view about a non compassion topic. It's kind of the HN version of 'we won't be angry at you on your birthday day after back to being a dick'.

I also love the predictable 'get help' ok great thanks I am sure the person writing doesn't know hasn't thought of or hasn't tried that already.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#137

Post by AmericanChopper »

wasteofelectron wrote: post #124
AmericanChopper wrote: post #6

I can’t stand articles that start with “we need to talk about…”. What the author is really saying is “This topic is important to me, and I’d like to pressure you into having the same views on it as I do”. Regardless of the merit of those views, the only thing that ever comes after “we need to talk about…” is a description of some hardship the author (or somebody the author knows) faced, an explanation of how that sha…

This is an account of a woman’s husband and the father of her children being severely ill and dying by suicide, not “some hardship” or a “topic”. Have some respect for goodness sake. You never know when you’ll need someone to do the same for you.

This is exactly the type of irrational, emotional reaction the active is designed to elicit. The article is advocating for a public policy position, it relates to the topic of suicide, and it describes the hardships of the author. The merit of the position is irrelevant to the fact that this article has been so effective in evoking an emotive response from you, that simply a rational description of its content has managed to offend you.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#138

Post by R0b0t1 »

totetsu wrote: post #119
csomar wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works in real life. Family (and maybe generous government healthcare) will take care of "too broke" to give any yield, in the future, people. Anyone else who isn't lucky to have that kind of support will find himself in the streets. And that's fine. Societies can only function if the yield from the people it invested in is higher than the investment. This is why socialized healthcare is tricky. If y…

So socialized health care spending millions on a mentally disabled child who will never yield return on that investment is a danger to society?

Yes. It's well known that someone with, say, Down's syndrome may need a full time handler and is extremely unlikely to be a productive member of society (they'd need to be twice as productive, to make up for their handler).

Many couples when informed of Down's risk choose to abort.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#139

Post by dbt00 »

sen wrote: post #130
skissane wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a long history of suicidal thoughts, and I’ve even acted on them a few times when I was younger (albeit half-heartedly-if I’d been really serious about it I wouldn’t be here now.) I don’t know if that makes me “at high risk of suicide” but likely people like me are at greater risk than people who don’t have that history. And yet, having kids has actually made it easier for me to resist those thoughts. They hav…

Same here, I agree and relate to every bit you said. I always thought it'd be a bad idea for me to have kids, my childhood/early-adulthood was absolute chaos, abuse, serious depression, homelessness, the works. Met "the one", we wanted kids, a decade later I can see it's the best thing that ever happened to me. My brain can still be a very scary place, but they give me purpose/direction/motivation to do better and ma…

I'm glad to hear you've found that purpose in your life and here's hoping you get to exercise it for as long as possible.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#140

Post by GDC7 »

saghm wrote: post #102
pengaru wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's historically somewhat common for older, more established and financially secure men to pair up with young women. It does seem like a good practical/pragmatic approach to raising a family.

Women are still people who can have mental health issues; the solution of "just waiting until you're 40" isn't viable for 50% of the population.

Freezing eggs at 18-22 y/o should be the norm. Especially in rich areas such as LA and NYC.

Gives women options.

The earlier you freeze them the more you can get with a single procedure

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