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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

vanityfair.com

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#131

Post by deeviant »

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

If this is the most shocking article you have ever read in your life, I feel you haven't read many articles in your life.

There is absolutely no evidence in it. Just a pile of conjecture. It is absolutely the stuff of conspiracy theories.

The truly shocking thing is that world does not hold China liable for this disaster. It really doesn't matter if it started in a lab or in one of their wet markets; it was incompetence and negligence on China's part in either case. China should pay reparations to the world for turning it off for what looks to be like multiple years, and killing millions of people.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#132

Post by disgrunt »

arrosenberg wrote: post #95
harryf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's shady to provide that funding. What I'm saying is it demonstrates conflict of interest. Last year in May 5 2020 Fauci dismissed the idea that the virus came from a lab that his own organisation was providing funds to - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronav... Whether or not anything shady was happening, the conflict of interest is clear.

It's not a conflict of interest because Dr. Fauci wasn't gaining anything. The agency he is head of is specifically interested in infectious disease and has a large budget for grants. $120K per year pays for a couple plate of genetic samples and tech time to run them. Maybe in China you can run a few more for that cost, I don't know. As head of that agency, it's also his job to share his professional opinion with the…

> It's not a conflict of interest because Dr. Fauci wasn't gaining anything. The agency he is head of is specifically interested in infectious disease and has a large budget for grants. $120K per year pays for a couple plate of genetic samples and tech time to run them. Maybe in China you can run a few more for that cost, I don't know.

So it is not a conflict of interest because of the sum of money? Someone doesn't need to gain anything to be in conflict, by definition: "a situation in which the concerns or aims of two different parties are incompatible."

Do you at least think he had a duty to disclose his involvement/investment in gain of function research? Specifically with the Wuhan lab at the center of this?

> As head of that agency, it's also his job to share his professional opinion with the public. For this, his reward is a public servant's salary. Seriously, what's he getting here for his supposed "deception"?

Did you know he's the most highly paid government official? His measly public servant salary only paid him $417K. [0]

[0]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/01/25/dr-...

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#134

Post by tripletao »

peter422 wrote: post #90
jkhdigital wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...yes? Listen, if you are prepared to seriously consider a lab leak, then you have to assume that any public statements from Chinese authorities are dubious. I’m pretty sure my own government makes dubious statements all the time so it’s not hard to imagine.

I’m seriously considering it and put it higher than 0%. But if you think your hypothesis is the most likely outcome (>50%), and your defense at any evidence that discounts your view is that it is a giant and incredible cover up by the Chinese government then I guess we have very different priors about how easy it is to pull off massive conspiracies. And also remember the people that leaked that 2-3 employees were hos…

Are you familiar with the Sverdlovsk anthrax leak? The Soviets successfully blamed that on tainted meat, and the truth wasn't revealed until after the fall of the Soviet Union. Before that, the Western scientific consensus agreed with the Soviets, discounting speculation otherwise as a conspiracy theory, with reasoning similar to yours above.

(For emphasis, nothing above is meant to imply that SARS-CoV-2 was a bioweapon. An accident in reckless but not malicious basic research seems far more likely to me, and natural origin certainly hasn't been excluded either.)

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#135

Post by adrr »

nostromo wrote: post #76
ctoth wrote: post #7

Another pretty good article, certainly higher quality than you'd consider given the source[0]. What switch flipped to make all these come out right now? [0]: https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-how-amateur-sleuths-broke...

The reason it's coming out now is because Trump is gone. During the election, most of the media decided to ignore anything they were afraid would help Trump or hurt Biden. Whether an activist media is good or bad is left as an exercise for the reader.

Trump officials are the ones who said it wasn’t a lab leak from the start. Did you read the article?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#136

Post by jkhdigital »

beachy wrote: post #113
DudeInBasement wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. A lab near the wet market, who studies bats and viruses. And people ignore the obvious because orange bad man said it.

When someone demonstrably lies constantly, it's not unreasonable to assume that the truth is most likely the opposite of what they say.

No, the reasonable response is to completely ignore what they say, because otherwise you are still being manipulated by the liar.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#137

Post by bpodgursky »

kaesar14 wrote: post #54

It’s crazy to me how many people on even this forum, a place purportedly of science, continue to dismiss a lab leak origin out of hand citing it as some sort of crackpot theory. The serious questions raised in this article have been around since last April but it’s only now it’s even allowed to talk about them on digital forums. Excellent write up by Vanity Fair.

It's worth remembering that a good percent of any social media audience are paid Chinese posters (ie the $.50 army).

China has been working _very_ hard to redirect the origin of COVID-19 away from the WIV, and even from China itself (starting rumors that it originated in Italy).

Take any skeptical audience with a huge grain of salt, considering that the zeitgeist might not be organic in the slightest.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#138

Post by fullshark »

generalizations wrote: post #129
fullshark wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this partially backwards looking at 10000+ shitposts and marveling at the X number that were right?

> Sure, 4chan got a lot wrong: but better to get all the (possible) facts, and sift through them.

It's a data point in favor of not censoring posts based the "consensus" at least.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#139

Post by corpMaverick »

mc32 wrote: post #39
bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

IMHO, we were in the middle of the problem. The important part to was to figure out how to get out of it. The investigation at that point would not be helpful as it may make cooperation more difficult. Even if the result is that is natural origin and it escaped from a Wet Market. It was China's responsibility and the whole world must make sure to force China to ban wet markets. But as I said before, it will come a time for that.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#140

Post by fragileone »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #116
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. No. It’s because of politics and TDS. People were taught that this was a Trump theory. That’s all the media needs to say to ensure that nobody will take it seriously and nobody will tolerate anyone else who takes it seriously.

Except that it was a Trump theory. That doesn't mean it cannot be true. It does mean that after 3 years and several thousand fully documented outright lies, the presumption of truth was no longer being granted.

Except he was proven right yet again that social media and old media orgs will censor others and lie to the public when it fits their political agenda.
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