Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 149 posts

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#131

Post by photik »

foxhop wrote: post #58
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do you do with "bad people? I think he's usually using it synonymous with "deadbeats you don't want to hire anyway"

I think our biggest problem is we bundle a huge part of the "criminal" spectrum together. The fact that we incarcerate for drug possession seems pretty strange. Petty crimes have way too high of cost in and out of prison. I associated with a boy in highschool who shortly after graduation murdered two unarmed people in their home with a sawed off shotgun. I would consider him a very bad person. Both the petty and the…

I use to work in youth corrections. A gang unit I worked on housed one young guy who got behind the wheel drunk on his sixteenth birthday and accidentally killed someone, and another young man who contracted an STI from his girlfriend and decapitated her. These two young men slept 3ft apart and were treated equivalently by the system.

You've pinpointed a major flaw that is mostly invisible to the public.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#132

Post by Floegipoky »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #35
phatboyslim wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comparison isn't useful IMO because alcohol had actually been legal prior to prohibition introduced by puritanism. If anything I'd say prohibition gave people pause since alcoholism and heavy drinking was quite common prior to it being introduced. (Note: I'm not against marijuana legalization/decriminalization - just making an observation).

To be fair, marijuana was criminalized at the same time as booze, and by the same people, but yeah, we've now had multi-generational prohibition instead of a decade.

And huge amounts of funding for fraudulent smear campaigns which have swayed public opinion during that time.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#133

Post by onetimemanytime »

leetcrew wrote: post #20
onetimemanytime wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: don't these people still have to report the arrests in some forms /for some jobs even if they're vacated? "Have you ever been arrested or jailed..." I know US immigration specifically asks to mention even if pardoned or expunged.

not sure what types of jobs would make you answer that question (outside of security maybe), but at least in principle, such questions should be completely illegitimate within the US legal system.

US Visa application: "Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty, or other similar action?" https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/78412/what-should...

It asks but doesn't mean you're automatically denied. BUT a just pardoned person in Seattle would have to answer yes if Canada asked the same question (they probably do)

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#134

Post by njarboe »

clairity wrote: post #129
njarboe wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"are you really completely against patriotism?" One of the founding principle of the American Republic was that the government is not the country. "We the people" and all that. Many would argue that to be a "true" American patriot one should be highly skeptical of government with skepticism increasing the farther removed it is from your local community.

but the government isn't something apart from ourselves. the government is us. the more we try to "other" it and give in to helplessness, the less effective we will be in controlling our collective destiny. skepticism is healthy, dogmatism, not so much. yes, let's keep federal power in check (because it's too tempting to abuse and degenerate into authoritarianism), but no, let's not live in fear of it either.

I agree. Blind following of any doctrine can lead to failure and helplessness and fear are not good emotions to have all the time. But with the history of the continually increasing power and scope of government, especially the federal level, I would not say that the dogmatism of the skepticism of big government is really a bad thing. Especially if one has some skepticism of dogmatisms also.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#135

Post by mabbo »

faitswulff wrote: post #19
mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

Why can't they both be problems?

Because they aren't. The first is only a problem because of the second. By solving the first, you continue to allow the second to be a problem. It let's us all continue to ignore it.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#136

Post by faitswulff »

mabbo wrote: post #135
faitswulff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they both be problems?

Because they aren't. The first is only a problem because of the second. By solving the first, you continue to allow the second to be a problem. It let's us all continue to ignore it.

This is the equivalent of saying "technical debt isn't a problem, the business priorities are a problem." Yes, the business priorities caused the technical debt, but you have to pay down the technical debt as well. Throwing out 15 years of the results of a bad culture is meaningful to hundreds, if not thousands of people whose sentences were lifted. So, too, is changing the culture. They are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#137

Post by Bjartr »

misiti3780 wrote: post #104
Bjartr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if that happens to any other employee? How many of them have experienced that before to know that they wouldn't have done the same? How many of them have been in those positions and did commit crime, but didn't get convicted? Having someone with criminal experience can also provide value as they would know what what to look for to find others who would do the same. Frank Abagnale Jr. being the extreme example of…

I'm not saying they should never be hired, I'm saying that you cannot discount human bias, and unfortunately a lot of the time the person working at the bank will toss that resume. That is just the reality we live in.

> I'm not saying they should never be hired, I'm saying that you cannot discount human bias, and unfortunately a lot of the time the person working at the bank will toss that resume.

It sounded more like you were advocating for them not being hired. "Humans have biases" could be read as referring to the applicant or the employer. I think many are reading it as referring to the former, when you intended the latter.

> That is just the reality we live in.

That is the culture we live in. There is a lot of behavior we take for granted as inherent when it's really learned. Look at Germany and Japan for example to see perspectives on working and employment that don't align with ours. If different countries can have different cultures, can't we strive to improve our culture instead of simply giving up because "That is just the reality we live in"?

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#138

Post by [deleted] »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #57
bunderbunder wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things bounced back petty quickly. It only took about 80 years for us to start having access to good beer again. More seriously - I don't think organized crime went away. It was a big problem before prohibition, and it continued to be a big problem after. However, it may have been weakened by the loss of an extremely profitable revenue source. Alcoholism dropped precipitously during prohibition, and started coming ba…

Excuse me but the wet lawn mower clippings mixed with cinnamon and spicy chai with a shot of 5w40 for texture that is currently in vogue is not "good beer". I want a beer I can drink, not one I have to endure.

[deleted]

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#139

Post by cannabisceo »

bunderbunder wrote: post #50
Symbiote wrote: post #16

For comparison, what happened just after alcohol prohibition ended in the USA? (I'm not American, so not too familiar with this.)

Things bounced back petty quickly. It only took about 80 years for us to start having access to good beer again. More seriously - I don't think organized crime went away. It was a big problem before prohibition, and it continued to be a big problem after. However, it may have been weakened by the loss of an extremely profitable revenue source. Alcoholism dropped precipitously during prohibition, and started coming ba…

Organized crime still runs alcohol. Many mafiosos have come into cannabis from alcohol in the last two years. By alcohol I'm not only referring to the bottlers but also the distributors, bars, and night clubs.

Re: Seattle judges throw out 15 years of marijuana convictions

#140

Post by derefr »

mabbo wrote: post #15

> "For too many who call Seattle home, a misdemeanour marijuana conviction or charge has created barriers to opportunity - good jobs, housing, loans and education," she said. The problem isn't the marijuana convictions, the problem is a society that believes people with criminal records can and should have their entire lives ruined for it. It's a society that doesn't believe in rehabilitation, just "good people" and…

You say "a society" like you have an example of a time or place that's not like this.
Post reply on HN